The search for E.T.

[Jeff V]

It's apparently perfectly acceptable that scientists at SETI search for inteligent life by sending repetitive patterns blindly into space hoping to get a response.

Ok I can accept that as a form of science.

What they are sending is basically information, prime numbers etc. Knowing that something intelligent has to create the information we hope to receive.

We know intelligence creates information rich systems. No other naturalistic explanation can account for the cause of these systems(as of yet). So finding a return pattern from space would be exciting. To date no luck.

DNA has been said to process, and store more information than anything in the known universe. Since this is such an information rich system can't we suppose that intelligence had something to do with the creation of this system?

No.

Does this have an intelligent designer? Or can it be produced by 'random' forces?



How about complex organic molecules that self assemble from carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen?

[Jeff V]

Good one. Seriously you can smile.

But we already know how a snowflake is formed.

[benjdm]

As far as I know, we are sending very little. SETI is primarily about listening.

[Jeff V]

I believe we're doing both. Either way the example still holds.

It wasn't meant to be compelling, and it proves nothing. But I imagine it's surprising to those who have an intuitive idea that random forces can't produce order.

In your question, the concept of 'information' isn't really explored, so I'd like to do that. What exactly is information? Is it a process for producing ordered and complex structures? Is it meaningful data? What is meaningful? How is 'information' different to noise? I'm interested in your ideas on this.

Let me ask you some questions to narrow it down:
- Does the ecosytem of earth contain more information than, say, the surface of mars?
- Does a snowflake contain more information than the water vapor used to produce it?
- Is a planet covered in a variety of organic molecules, such as some DNA precursors, more complex than a similar sized planet covered with nothing but basic elements? Does it contain more information?
- Does a single cell contain more information than an entire human body of trillions of cells?
- Does a mouse brain contain more information than a human brain?
- Does the brain of a whale, 6 times the size of a human's, contain more information than a human brain?

[sexdrugsmoney]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
- Does the brain of a whale, 6 times the size of a human's, contain more information than a human brain?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying it's not the size that counts, but how you use it? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Jeff V]

6 entries found for information.
To select an entry, click on it.
informationinformation retrievalinformation scienceinformation theoryinformation superhighwayinformation technology

Main Entry: in·for·ma·tion
Pronunciation: "in-f&amp;r-'mA-sh&amp;n
Function: noun
1 : the communication or reception of knowledge or intelligence
2 a (1) : knowledge obtained from investigation, study, or instruction (2) : INTELLIGENCE, NEWS (3) : FACTS, DATA b : the attribute inherent in and communicated by one of two or more alternative sequences or arrangements of something (as nucleotides in DNA or binary digits in a computer program) that produce specific effects c (1) : a signal or character (as in a communication system or computer) representing data (2) : something (as a message, experimental data, or a picture) which justifies change in a construct (as a plan or theory) that represents physical or mental experience or another construct

Go ahead make your point.

I know you like to type so have at it.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
It's apparently perfectly acceptable that scientists at SETI search for inteligent life by sending repetitive patterns blindly into space hoping to get a response.

Ok I can accept that as a form of science.

What they are sending is basically information, prime numbers etc. Knowing that something intelligent has to create the information we hope to receive.

We know intelligence creates information rich systems. No other naturalistic explanation can account for the cause of these systems(as of yet). So finding a return pattern from space would be exciting. To date no luck.

DNA has been said to process, and store more information than anything in the known universe. Since this is such an information rich system can't we suppose that intelligence had something to do with the creation of this system?

[/ QUOTE ]

This looks like leading to a similar bogus discussion as the 'cause of the universe' question. The (faulty) premise this time looks to be.

Seti looks for complex information
Scientists believe such complex information would require an intelligent originator.
Therefore all complex information requires an intelligent originator.

Perhaps we can avoid going down a long song and dance about the complexity of DNA and see if we all agree the above argument isn't valid.

Then we could discuss what sort of complex information requires an intelligent creator and then we could discuss if DNA is that sort of complex information.

That way we might actually make some progress in understanding each others point of view.

chez