Reality Check re: new Miller, Sklansky, Malmuth Book: Small Stake HE

[brianmarc]

Has anyone seen any games that regularly fit their "Loose Games" criterion of average 6-8 players on flop? I have lloked at small/medium games on Party and Wm Hill and seen no real-money games that regularly exhibit this degree of looseness.

[kem]

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Has anyone seen any games that regularly fit their "Loose Games" criterion of average 6-8 players on flop? I have lloked at small/medium games on Party and Wm Hill and seen no real-money games that regularly exhibit this degree of looseness.

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You know I was wondering the exact same thing when I picked up SSH. I've pretty much only played online, and perhaps naively assumed that I was playing in loose games on Party/Empire. According to Poker Tracker, all my tables are 35-45% seeing the flop, which according to SSH is a tight table. So if SSH is for loose tables, am I reading the wrong book?

[TimM]

You won't see 6-8 players per flop all the time at online lower limits, but it happens occasionally and it helps to know how to deal with it. 3-5 per flop is pretty routine, and is also covered by SSHE. I'm finding that my online opponents' biggest pre-flop mistakes involve cold calling raises. Many players, even fairly tight ones, will cold call with almost any hand they would have played for one bet.

[morello]

No. Miller doesn't play online, and the book wasn't written for online play.

I've seen 3-6 B&M games where there was probably an average of 6 players per flop.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

I was in 15-30 and 20-40 games this weekend which were perfect for Miller's loose games criteria.

[kem]

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No. Miller doesn't play online, and the book wasn't written for online play.

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Yet the annual poker earnings quoted in the book ($60k/yr was it?) refers to multi-tabling online....

[Nottom]

You will occasionally find a micro-limit table that fits the "loose" criteria if even for a hand here and there. For the most part however they tend to be the "tight" loose games.

On the other hand you can often find some very very loose live games att he lowest limits offered.

[PITTM]

i go to bay 101 about twice a week and i would say that i have seen all players go to the flop many many times...

rj

[ChicagoTroy]

Almost every Saturday night in low to mid-limit games. I'm in Chicago, but I understand it's not uncommon in Cali games, too. Online I don't see it above microlimit.

Since the games exist, it's important to post the differences between 3-5 & 6-8 players.

[Troy92]

Just got Miller's book. I like how he has broken out pre-flop guidelines between 3-5 per flop vs. 6-8 per flop. While the normal Party Poker table seems to fit the 3-5 players per flop average, I still run into some tables with 6-8 players per flop online. The guidelines are helpful in presenting which hands perform better when you see more players in a flop. I even see some hands where I may have been too tight in the past behind a raise.

From my limited experience with B&M's the play does appear to be looser. It could be a regional thing. It is not that surprising to see Seattle games generally being loose-passive and Southern California games being loose-aggressive.

Last week I went to the local card room and played in the most loose-passive game I had ever been involved in. The average was at least 6 players to a flop. That was for a 9-handed game with my tight ass dragging the average down. I think only a couple players realized that raising was allowed. Several times I saw monster hands not being bet or raised on the river, including a few nut hands. Unfortunately, I wasn't getting dealt any cards that night and couldn't take advantage of the table. Though I think I could have gotten in there if I would have started reading Miller's book beforehand.