$55 level 4 - Don't like villain's limp-call all-in here.

[jedi]

Here's a hand that I played at the $55s on Party. I thought villain's play was suspect. Was it, or are these the types of calls that you have to make at this level? Actually, I'm thinking more about the limp/call all-in. Don't think that's the way to play winning poker, but that's just me. Had I been in his shoes, it's a raise or fold situation, given his stack size it's probably all-in for me.

***** Hand History for Game 2795017975 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:16171199 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Thursday, September 29, 10:06:35 EDT 2005
Table Table 12327 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: ( $1440 )
Seat 2: ( $1735 )
Seat 4: ( $1480 )
Seat 5: ( $820 )
Seat 6: ( $1310 )
Seat 7: jedi ( $995 )
Seat 9: ( $2220 )
Trny:16171199 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jedi [ ? ?]
Dealt to Villain: [ 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] , 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
2 folds
Villain calls [100].
1 fold.
jedi is all-In [995]
2 folds.
Villain is all-In [720]

[chisness]

he's bad but expect this when you push

[Nicholasp27]

this is why it's better to push first in pot...so no limpers

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
he's bad but expect this when you push

[/ QUOTE ]

SHOULD I expect this? Expect it from bad players? Expect it from good players? I certainly didn't have a read that he'd be doing something like this. I needed to make a move at that point, had cards that I thought I could do so, and did. For the record (not that it matters) I had 44. I'm not sure that's quite the play either, but when he called, I half expected to see high cards, something like QJ that didn't want to raise but somehow could called.

I just don't want to fall into the trap of thinking that it's a good play and making it myself.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
this is why it's better to push first in pot...so no limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so do I just fold my 44 here? I thought this was the best spot for it. The only thing is that I'd be dead if someone behind me had AK or a bigger pair, or that the original limper (villain) was limp-trapping with AA or KK. I was compltely mystified when he turned over 55. Defintely didn't expect that.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is why it's better to push first in pot...so no limpers

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so do I just fold my 44 here? I thought this was the best spot for it. The only thing is that I'd be dead if someone behind me had AK or a bigger pair, or that the original limper (villain) was limp-trapping with AA or KK. I was compltely mystified when he turned over 55. Defintely didn't expect that.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think the push is fine. Who knows why the villain played it like that. Because he sucks, or he hates money. Maybe he had a hot date. All you're saying is that you didn't expect the call, which is fine. I wouldn't have either. You definitely have lots of fold equity vs. a limping villain in that spot, even for hands that beat you handily that may limp, from 55-TT, I'd say. All that this proves is for that opponent FE was less than you (or I) would have estimated. FE is never 100%, of course, so this type of thing happens. I wouldn't worry to much about your play here. I wouldn't add the non-trapping limp/all-in call to my arsenal... ever.

[llabb]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so do I just fold my 44 here? I thought this was the best spot for it. The only thing is that I'd be dead if someone behind me had AK or a bigger pair, or that the original limper (villain) was limp-trapping with AA or KK. I was compltely mystified when he turned over 55. Defintely didn't expect that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you made the right play, Jedi. With the blinds only at 100, it's hard to put him on a hand when he limps. Usually you will have enough FE over mid-pockets and any 2 Broadway. Anything better will have raised, except an occasional sneaky AA-type play.

The only thing that gives slight reason for caution is that the villain only has 720 behind and has the blinds coming up on him after 2 more hands. If the blinds will increase by then, he's toast. So he may call. But it's hard to say, with blinds still only at 100.

If the blinds are 200+, I think you have to expect him to call. As an example, I posted this thread where I got reamed for even *thinking* it might not be a push (even though I had in fact pushed). After thinking it through, via that thread, I would not push a low pocket or AQ- on a small-stacked limper if the blinds are high enough. I'd rather look for a better spot to open-push. AK, I still gotta think about, though. It's too pretty.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought villain's play was suspect. Was it, or are these the types of calls that you have to make at this level?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are even asking this question then perhaps you should consider moving down in limits. I also think that your raise allin with 44 was bad. Not nearly as bad as his play but still bad.

[AA suited]

hm.. villian might have a read on you.

ie: "usually check/folds on flop, but will push with semi-decent hand preflop if there's a limper"