100-200 against stoxtrader - Page 2

James282 · #11 03-22-2005, 01:33 AM

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Short handed your play is to bet the turn and if check/raised by a good player, 3 bet. If he 4 bets, you're probably looking at 99 or a Q, but you have to call. <edit> You are calling mainly to stop a worse hand from betting the river, but also to spike an ace <endedit> If you don't snag an ace on the river fold only if you know him very well, which you seem to.

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So your plan is, 4 bets go in on the turn? Sorry, not for me. I can see the obvious benefits of betting the turn, but 3 betting? I can't say yuck enough. Best case scenario is I make him fold a 2 outer, which would suck.
-James

Lestat · #12 03-22-2005, 01:50 AM

Short handed is all about psychological warfare.

So your plan is, 4 bets go in on the turn? 

No, my plan is something goes in on the turn. If his plan is 2 bets goes in on the turn, then my plan is 3 bets goes in on the turn. It was never my plan that 4 bets goes in on the turn. Notice my plan is much better than another poster's plan that 3 bets goes in on the river.

Stork · #13 03-22-2005, 01:55 AM

If you're talking about me, I took back my comments if stoxtrader can fold a king there. Either way, 3-betting the turn really sucks ( and yes, I would argue it sucks worse than 3-betting the river too).

James282 · #14 03-22-2005, 02:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Short handed is all about psychological warfare.

So your plan is, 4 bets go in on the turn? 

No, my plan is something goes in on the turn. If his plan is 2 bets goes in on the turn, then my plan is 3 bets goes in on the turn. It was never my plan that 4 bets goes in on the turn. Notice my plan is much better than another poster's plan that 3 bets goes in on the river.

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Three betting the turn is horrible. I can't represent a queen as the only queen I can have is AQ. Your long term plan for the term is very weak, you need to figure out a new one.

For many reasons, this is not a hand that can go more than 2 bets on any street for me. Stoxtrader is a player folks, not some 2 bit hack loser breaking even in the party 15.
-James

Lestat · #15 03-22-2005, 02:07 AM

( and yes, I would argue it sucks worse than 3-betting the river too). 

It could be I've just been very lucky over the years in short handed games.

Would you agree that you should be 3 betting other non-AA hands if you are check/raised on this turn? If not, stop... No need to respond... Have a nice day.

If you would agree, then after thinking some you'll see why you should also 3 bet AA.

edit: Every once in a while. Like I said, short handed is psychological. Sometimes you should play it like you would in a full game. i.e. check the turn, avoid a check/raise, and induce a bet or call on the river.

Klepton · #16 03-22-2005, 02:13 AM

i don't play this high, but i think after a preflop 3-bet, a Q would c/r the flop and lead the whole way...

i like the way you played it, i guess you were hoping to induce a bluff on the river, oor let him get stupid with a 9 or K. 3-betting seems way out of line. i'm guessing he has a K or J10

btw, your game selection does eat balls

Lestat · #17 03-22-2005, 02:15 AM

If you are this worried that he has to have a queen or 99 in order to check/raise the turn, otherwise he'll fold, then you should be able to clean him out in a short-handed game.

I see what you're saying, but it applies more to full games. Not short-handed games. I think you guys are VERY wrong on this and if you'd put some thought into it you might be able to see that. But I'm not one of your famed posters. So what do I know? No prob.

James282 · #18 03-22-2005, 02:16 AM

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i don't play this high, but i think after a preflop 3-bet, a Q would c/r the flop and lead the whole way...

i like the way you played it, i guess you were hoping to induce a bluff on the river, oor let him get stupid with a 9 or K. 3-betting seems way out of line. i'm guessing he has a K or J10

btw, your game selection does eat balls

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The game selection joke was old after astroglide said it, because there is no way that the presence of Lakerman and stoxtrader make this game unprofitable for me.

Thanks for your other analysis of the hand, though.
-James

Stork · #19 03-22-2005, 02:16 AM

James, what do you put Stox on? I'm having trouble putting him on anything with any degree of certainty. I'd guess either a king or a pocket pair. I'd expect him to play back at you sooner with a queen and try and make it look to you like he was trying to push you off your hand with nothing. I think he puts you on a pocket pair lower than queens, and he thinks he's ahead on the river now with kings, maybe KJs or something?

Also, if he does have a queen, I'd be interested in hearing his take on the hand because this seems like a weird way to play flopped trips.

Clarkmeister · #20 03-22-2005, 02:18 AM

I actually prefer smoothcalling the turn checkraise with the intention of raising the river if you really want to 3-bet the turn.

I also agree that 3-betting the river is bad. If the river had been any card *but* a king, I might think it's ok, but his checkraise on that card is bad news.