Played like a girlie-man? 2-4 party, trip T's

[Fat Nicky]

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I only want it 2-3 handed instead of 5-6 handed if those 2-3 folded hands were better than ATo. If they folded worse hands, then don't I want to call and have them limp?

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More worse hands than better hands will cold call. They will call whether you limp or raise.

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Will the 2-4 player cold-call 2 w/ AJo to my ATo pre-flop raise? I tend to think they will..


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Yes, most will cold call w/AJo, this will happen sometimes. You can't win every pot. You just can't assume that all cold-callers will have you dominated.

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If I'm going to be dominated, don't I want as many people in the pot as possible? That way I have better implied odds for my 1 card nut flush, straight, two pair, etc.. ?


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Implied odds is the last thing you should be concerned about if you're dominated with an offsuit hand.

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And with 5 people to act after me pre-flop (MP3, CO, Button, SB, & BB), I'm not so sure I have a better hand, hence the limp.

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Don't assume anything yet, raise, see who calls, re-raises, etc...see the flop...then evaluate and assume.

[kem]

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More worse hands than better hands will cold call. They will call whether you limp or raise.

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What worse hands do you expect a 2-4 player to cold-call me with? Especially at this table, where GT+ tells me the VP$IP% is 30%.

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Yes, most will cold call w/AJo, this will happen sometimes. You can't win every pot. You just can't assume that all cold-callers will have you dominated.

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I'm not assuming that at all. You're telling me to raise it because many worse hands will call. I'm disagreeing, and tend to think that mainly better hands will call, the worse will fold, and I will find myself with little pot equity.

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Implied odds is the last thing you should be concerned about if you're dominated with an offsuit hand.

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Okay, but if I tell you that you have to play ATo and exactly one player will have you dominated, would you rather be heads up against the player, or have 5 limpers in with you guys? I think the answer is to take the limpers, and the reason why is implied odds.

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Don't assume anything yet, raise, see who calls, re-raises, etc...see the flop...then evaluate and assume.

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Aren't I assuming something by raising? I thought that by calling I wasn't assuming anything....

[Fat Nicky]

Ok, this debate is getting kinda pointless and I know this has been discussed numerous times on these boards.

When it comes down to long term results, there is not a big difference in EV in raising or calling in MP w/ATo.

[pudley4]

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More worse hands than better hands will cold call. They will call whether you limp or raise.

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What worse hands do you expect a 2-4 player to cold-call me with? Especially at this table, where GT+ tells me the VP$IP% is 30%.

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1 - It's Party 2/4. They'll call with A7, they'll call with KT, they'll call with 86. They like to call
2 - GT+ is biased towards players with whom you have a lot of hands. If you have one 15% player with 1k hands and several 40+% players with only 50 hands, GT+ will display a table average that is vastly tighter than it actually is (unless some changes have been made within the last month).

[kem]

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More worse hands than better hands will cold call. They will call whether you limp or raise.

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What worse hands do you expect a 2-4 player to cold-call me with? Especially at this table, where GT+ tells me the VP$IP% is 30%.

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1 - It's Party 2/4. They'll call with A7, they'll call with KT, they'll call with 86. They like to call
2 - GT+ is biased towards players with whom you have a lot of hands. If you have one 15% player with 1k hands and several 40+% players with only 50 hands, GT+ will display a table average that is vastly tighter than it actually is (unless some changes have been made within the last month).

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Your last point is valid, except I had no hands on anyone. This was a tight table. Average pot was probably $24. I left when the blinds hit me after winning this pot.

I know people like to say that 2-4 is barely better than $0.5-$1, but there are 2-4 tables out there that have VP$IP% < 40%, which is a "tight" table as defined by SSH...