One line doesn't fit all...

[iluzion]

[ QUOTE ]
Evan played this hand against me in Vegas, and I think it illustrates a weakness in a lot of online multitablers' games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, it was a misclick I bet.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I really want to hear why Joe Tall raises this flop.

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I just reread the thread and I would like to hear more about this too. Some random thoughts:

- The button probably has some pair outs that we would not mind clearing out if possible.
- It might get us a free card...but I sersiously doubt that.
- It could set up a scrub turn fold if an A/K comes
- Raising is fun

I'm done now.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is a rainbow-completing Jack. I bet. Evan raises. I 3-bet. Evan folds.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I hate the raise and fold to a 3-bet on this board. You've bet out twice on a coordinated board, one which could easily hit a SB complete type of hand. When the J hits, Evan is either now way ahead, or still way behind.

The third player makes things complicated a little bit. If I felt like it looks like he's going to fold, and I'm going to fold to a 3-bet if I raise, then I'd much rather use those 2 BB's to just get to showdown. He may miss out on some value for the times that you'll call a turn raise, and a river bet. But his hand has some showdown value, and I'd like to get there in this case for the same price as raising and folding to the 3-bet.

If the third player is going to likely come along, then that changes things. In this case, it may still be worth just calling if this guy is likely drawing thin or dead, between the two of you.

Anyway, I see people advocate that raise and fold to a 3-bet on the turn line all of the time, and I really think it only applies to certain situations. I don't think this is one of them.

[VBM]

forgive me as i might be stating the obvious, but is the weakness you've described too-narrowly defining an opponent's range and using this range to make poker decisions?

what happened to terrible player on the turn? folded to Evan's raise?

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now I really want to hear why Joe Tall raises this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just reread the thread and I would like to hear more about this too. Some random thoughts:

- The button probably has some pair outs that we would not mind clearing out if possible.
- It might get us a free card...but I sersiously doubt that.
- It could set up a scrub turn fold if an A/K comes

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's all of the above. Also though, given that bad players like to call, especially when it comes to peeling one off on the flop, and we know he's likely to come along, I think just calling Scrub's bet pretty much says "I have overcards".

I'd probably like a flop raise a little better though if I had an A. I'll be interested to hear Joe's thoughts as well.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll be interested to hear Joe's thoughts as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bumping myself. I think this hand deserves more discussion.

[JTG51]

"When the J hits, Evan is either now way ahead, or still way behind."

Scrub could easily have a 13 out hand with something like 64s here.

[aK13]

I think this is a very read dependent play (by you). When he calls your flop bet, you most certainly have him pinned on overs. When he raises the turn with the J, he's pretty much telling you he's got a J, but your 3bet announces that "I can beat a pair of J", so he folds. Although I don't really think you have him beat here, I think you did an excellent job of exploiting his analysis.

Or I don't know what I'm talking about. I'd also like to know why Joe raises this flop.

[molawn2mo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it illustrates a weakness in a lot of online multitablers' games.

[/ QUOTE ]

scrub:

at some point i hope that you will articulate that to which you infer in the above quote.

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
Evan played this hand against me in Vegas, and I think it illustrates a weakness in a lot of online multitablers' games.

Evan is BB, I am SB. It's folded to an erratic and terrible player on the button who openlimps. He would do this with any hand he would play, which is just about any two cards. I complete, Evan raises QJs, and we both call.

The flop is 356r. I bet. Evan calls. Crappy guy calls.

The turn is a rainbow-completing Jack. I bet. Evan raises. I 3-bet. Evan folds.

Thoughts?

scrub

[/ QUOTE ]

raising the flop is some good.

if im raising this pf and not raising the flop, im 4betting and calling a 5bet on this turn everytime.

HU against a tricky TAG who has seen me play is not the time to be folding top pair with a great kicker.

scrub: answer my pm. sil vous plait.

peace

john nickle