what to do with top two?

[DiamondDave]

20/40 at Bay 101. No one was short-stacked.

Everyone passed to MP, who limped three from the button. This guy had been open-raising with hands like KJo and QTo in that spot, but had been limping with much less (such as Q4s and J9o). I had been at the table for a few hours, and I had not seen him limp-reraise or slowplay a big hand before the flop.

Everyone else folded to me on the button. SB was a strong, tricky player. BB was a prop who hadn't been at the table long. I raised with Ks9s. SB folded, BB called, MP called.

Three of us saw a flop of Kh8c8d. Both players checked, and I bet. BB called, MP folded.

I did not like my hand. My plan was to check behind on the turn and probably call on the river.

The turn card was the 9 of diamonds, giving me top two pair. BB checked.

Time for a change of plans?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I raised with Ks9s. BB called...
.
Both players checked, and I bet. BB called...
.
I did not like my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see your problem. You don't like your hand when you have top pair and opponents call your bets. I, however, love those situations.

[King_J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raised with Ks9s. BB called...
.
Both players checked, and I bet. BB called...
.
I did not like my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I see your problem. You don't like your hand when you have top pair and opponents call your bets. I, however, love those situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he wonders what the heck bb could have been calling with. I wouldn´t feel all that comfortable either with K9 on a K88 board.

On a board lets say K65 its a completely other sitaution where I wouldn´t bother all that much if I get called or if I just took down the pot. And, btw, I think you should bet the turn...

I also think a check on turn would have been great if it was a brick.

[cero_z]

Hi Dynasty,
Despite your smugness, this is not an auto-bet, and not simply for the reason that you may not be ahead. You also may not get called by a weaker hand, unless you check the turn, in which case you probably will. The caller is a prop, who is therefore probably a mediocre to decent player, who also probably plays fairly tight. Check behind on the turn, call or bet on the river.

[andyfox]

Poster said he did not like his hand. I take that to mean he felt there was a good chance he was behind. I don't think he meant that he was afraid he might not get called by a weaker hand. Now if he had K-8, and the flop was K-8-8, and he said he didn't like his hand when he was called, that would be another story.

I see a bit of sarcasm in Dynasty's post, not smugness.

[Gabe]

This a very good question.

I'm not sure about your flop bet, though. I think checking would have been better.

[cero_z]

Hi Gabe,
Huh? Checking with top pair (that there's every reason to assume is good) against 2 players who've checked, one of whom is loose, with $130 sitting out there? I think you ought to consider this if only a very aggressive player had called you out of the blind. Then there's a good chance he'll bet it for you (although your checking the flop when betting is automatic looks suspicious as hell). Against two players, I say you charge them for the pursuit of those 6 bets.
Please explain your thinking.

[cero_z]

Hi Gabe,
lol. It just dawned on me that you were probably joking.

[karlson]

Come on Dynasty, this isn't a 3-6 game where he's being called with QJ because there's a backdoor straight draw.

Nevertheless, I think you have to bet. It seems that he's about equally likely to have a K as an 8, and most players will put in 3 more BB with a K. Also, even if he did call the flop with the sole plan of bluffing the river after you checked the turn, the 9 is a card that could have easily given him a draw, so he might try to semi-bluff check-raise on the turn instead.

It'll be slightly worse than checking if he has 77-22 and now folds, but would have put in a bet on the river. Nevertheless, really aggressive types might try to run you off QQ-TT in this spot. In short, give him a chance to make an expensive bluff when it's probably close to 50-50 if he is checkraising for value.

[DiamondDave]

I thought it was too wimpy to check behind on the turn, so I bet. He check-raised me, and I called him down. He had an eight (and rivered a superfluous diamond flush).

There were no obvious draws on the flop. The only hands I see my opponent calling with on the flop are a king, an eight, or a pocket pair. (Ace-high was a possibility, but I thought it was a fairly remote one.) Given my opponent's range of possible/probable holdings, there were few river cards that could produce a lead change, so giving a free card that could cost me the pot wasn't much of a concern. Add in the possiblity of a inducing a bluff or a loose call by pocket deuces on the river, and checking the turn looks pretty good.

There were basically two possibilities when I bet the turn -- he's ahead and can extract three late-round bets (assuming I call down and don't draw out), or I'm ahead and can extract two late-round bets (assuming he neither overplays his hand nor draws out). Both possibilities looked about equally likely (since I could see two eights and two kings), but I bet anyway. Seems silly, now that I think about it.

Comments welcome.