Extracting dough when you miss

[FreakDaddy]

Villian is a bad LAG. He's raising a lot of pots, and not with a whole lot of thought to position and isolating neccessarily. This is probably a standard line for most, but I thought I'd share for others. Check call - then lead - lead. Get AK and other marginal hands to fold. Only take these lines when you're pretty certain your image is TAG.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($82.85)
UTG+1 ($100)
UTG+2 ($62.60)
MP1 ($150.20)
MP2 ($63)
MP3 ($251.30)
CO ($368.69)
Button ($168.05)
SB ($226.10)
Hero ($121.58)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($6.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($14.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, MP1 calls $8.

River: ($30.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $45.50

I may be in way over my head, I'm not a great poker player. With that said,

This line is not at all standard for me - if villain is a bad lag he will bet/call down with any piece of the board. I'd much rather raise PF and fire two barrels, check/fold river vs. this type of villain. It's great that it worked, but if he calls your river bet 1 in 3 times you're losing a lot of money. Just the two cents of a lower limit player.

[wdeadwyler]

I dont see how this is standard. LIke other poster said, any bad lag will just call you down with anything. And so will calling stations. a GOOD lag might actually fold on the turn or river, but why are we tangling with good lags OOP?

[Kyriefurro]

[ QUOTE ]
a GOOD lag might actually fold on the turn or river, but why are we tangling with good lags OOP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually a GOOD lag is likely to 3-bet you on the turn, since that 6 didn't help any of your possible hands.

[Isura]

I like it up to the river. I would check and decide how much I want to call.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I may be in way over my head, I'm not a great poker player. With that said,

This line is not at all standard for me - if villain is a bad lag he will bet/call down with any piece of the board. I'd much rather raise PF and fire two barrels, check/fold river vs. this type of villain. It's great that it worked, but if he calls your river bet 1 in 3 times you're losing a lot of money. Just the two cents of a lower limit player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I didn't qualify bad LAG very well. What I mean by bad LAG is that he's aggresive, but not completely stupid. Definetly don't do this against a maniac. In my experience bad LAG's at these limits just like to try aggresive without being selectively aggresive, but they are also aware that someone who is playing tight and is betting into them, then they will fold a majority of the time. They just enjoy being the initator and 'bully', but when you show strength, they'll typically fold. Again, manaics and bad LAG's are quite different.

I use this line quite often actually, and sometimes with any two. It nets a solid profit. Re-raising pre-flop and then leading on a fairly blank board usually will get called down more often then this line - in my experience. Every line you think of taking need to be tailored to a specific read and feel you have for the table of course, but generally speaking, most bad LAG's get more stubbord when you try and come over the top of them, but they get confused with a call and then lead. They usually don't know what to do.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it up to the river. I would check and decide how much I want to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to add in the possibility of getting AQ and AK to fold here as well. 1/2 pot bet is showing I'm happy about my hand, and what on this board is he going to raise me with? This way I apply the pressure and it's in essence the same as check/calling with the added factor that better hands may fold. Do you still not agree?

[Guin]

I like the line if you are truly playing a TAG style at the table. I think that the turn bet and the river bet have to be larger (10 on turn, 25 on river) to give the message that you will call a raise.

With your current line a good LAG would raise it to $50-75 and really put you in a tough spot on the river.

Guin

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the line if you are truly playing a TAG style at the table. I think that the turn bet and the river bet have to be larger (10 on turn, 25 on river) to give the message that you will call a raise.

With your current line a good LAG would raise it to $50-75 and really put you in a tough spot on the river.

Guin

[/ QUOTE ]

10 on the turn isn't unreasonable, but I also don't want to give him the impression that I'm trying to bully him off the hand, but it's not a bad suggestion. I like the river though, he's a bad LAG and I don't think he's raising here, he would have on the turn imo.

[Guin]

The 10 is still less than pot but I find that 3/4 pot vs. 1/2 pot is huge in terms of strength at these levels. To keep the TAG image you have to not just do the T but also have to do the AG. 3/4 to pot is what is expected out of us in these situations. But 3/4 on river is solid value bet. Think of it this way... you have to bet enough to get them to fold but not so much that it looks like you are buying it. 1/2 pot might still get called by small pp. I just feel that if we are going to represent and we are TAG then we should represent.

And if you get called it helps your table image because next time you hit bet large on the river and get paid...

Guin