Prima 1/2 blind defence with J5s, is this worth it

[mackthefork]

Villian is 30/15/2.5 a little difficult for me, I like to try to calm these sorts down, or they can ruin my sessions at times. 1/2 Prima 6 max (6 handed)

I am BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villian raises first in from the CO, all others fold, I call.

Flop 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, villian raises, I call

(Pot 4.25BB)

Turn is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet....

Planning to fold to a raise or give it up if called, worth it? Spewing?

Regards Mack

[milesdyson]

i suggest folding preflop if you are going to play like this postflop. what are you doing here? don't try to calm down the lag.

[jba]

IMO you should have folded at every oppurtunity.

I don't like the pf call much. We dont have much hard card strength, we could be dominated and the fact that it is suited means we're going to put lots of bets into a small pot very often. If you know that the villian likes to bet/fold or gives up easy after steals we can play this hand differently. As it is this villian sounds like he is going to raise your flop bet close to 100% of the time...so this is a bet/3bet when we have a hand. Since he isn't ever going to fold the turn lead is silly I think.

All in all, I'd like a better hand before I went after this guy, knowing that he'll put some bets in and pay me off when I hit.

30/15 isn't really that much of a lag. If anything, he doesn't raise enough of his hands. Sure, a bet from the cutoff is likely to be a steal, but unfortunately, at 15% PFR his range of raising hands had you dominated. I'd be way happier if it were 95 of diamonds or 85, or hell, even 92, at least he's less likely to pair up the same card and outkick you. I'm nervous if I hit that jack but I'm only playing this after the flop if I hit 5 or a jack or a flush draw ... I don't see why you bet this flop, much less called a raise.

[StellarWind]

1. J5s is total junk. I wouldn't defend this OOP versus anyone, much less someone who seems to be a reasonable player.

2. Go read the rake schedule for 1/2. Any theoretical profits you might make off hands like this are eaten up by the rake. Defend tightly at 1/2.

3. You missed the flop. It's over. You are OOP with no hand, no draw, and no bluff equity to speak of. What are you doing? Did I really see you *call* a flop raise with a pure bluff?

Never play on in this situation with no prospects unless you have identified some horrible weakness in your opponent. If you feel you need to bluff once in a while then wait for a hand like J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] that has some modest draw potential. Take your shot on the flop. If you happen to pick up a draw on the turn then make it one of those even rarer hands where you continue your bluff onto the turn instead of giving up.

This approach to bluffing gives you extra chances to win.

Note that I'm assuming that you've predetermined a need to bluff sometimes in this situation versus this opponent and explaining the right way to implement a bluffing strategy. I'm not saying that it is correct to bluff here with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or anything else.

fold preflop, you're in early position.

[imported_leader]

In addition to what other have said, if you're going to bluff here this isn't the way to do it. Donking is going to get you raised by crap often. The turn donk is even worse. A reasonable player might put you on a weak T or 4x and try to bluff you. If you're going to bluff here make it look like you have a hand at least. CR the flop. That said this isn't the board to bluff at. You'll get called by overs a lot here.

[mackthefork]

I can see that decent players here think this is horrible, and I'm not a good enough player to argue with you, I can only say what I was thinking.

First he doesn't seem like a maniac to me, he is slightly looser and a little more aggressive postflop, his PFR number made me think he might raise with the same number of hands that I do myself. If he does raise with those same hands, then he has a pair of 3s or worse around 62.5% of the time. He has to call or raise the turn around 2/3rds of the time to prevent me making an automatic profit, so he needs to call or raise with half the hands he might play that flopped worse than a pair of 3s, I didn't think he would do that, I also didn't think his raise on the flop was anything more than automatic on his part after the preflop raise. I never tried anything like this before, and against either a looser or tighter player or a more passive player I would definitely fold preflop.

Anyway it most probably is as bad as you all say, but thanks for your thoughts.

Regards Mack

[bnorthro]

Grunch:
I think he's always going to call or raise you here. 2.5 is pretty aggressive post flop when he's seeing that many hands. And 15% PFR isn't super hi, so he's probably got something kinda solid. If you want to try and bluff him off, I think a C/R would say "I have a 2" more than another donk. To me a donk says 10.