88 - Page 2

ErrantNight · #11 12-14-2005, 11:01 AM

i don't think you get this HU nearly as often as you think

crunchy1 · #12 12-14-2005, 11:07 AM

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I think TT is an easy 3-bet, and I'm still not sure what I'm doing with 99, while 88 I'm okay folding. That's where my line is, where is yours?

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I don't have a prestablished line. Any "line" that I would use fluctuate depending on the opposition.

I will say that if you think we have enough equity with TT to make it an "easy" 3-bet - then we certainly must have enough equity to at least make 88 playable.

crunchy1 · #13 12-14-2005, 11:10 AM

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i don't think you get this HU nearly as often as you think

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You're probably correct... and hence the hand continues... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8.
3 folds, MP2 (Villian #1) calls, CO (Villian #2) raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets...

1 fold, MP2 (Villian #1) calls, CO (Villian #2) caps, Hero calls, MP2 (Villian #1) calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Villian #1 checks, Villian #2 bets, Hero?

#14 12-14-2005, 11:22 AM

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I don't have a prestablished line. Any "line" that I would use fluctuate depending on the opposition.

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Nor do I. I was refering to this specific situation.

damaniac · #15 12-14-2005, 11:29 AM

16 ways to have AK
4 ways to have AQs (maybe he'd do this with AQo, but we'll just use this as an appropriate discount)
6 ways to have AA
6 for KK
6 for QQ
3 for JJ
6 ways to have TT

So we're behind a bit more often than we're ahead. We might be able to push him off TT, OTOH, if we are ahead, he will catch up to us 3x as often as will catch up to him (6 outs vs. 2). And we still have the other player to worry about, slight though it may be. Doing a Pstove calc, I give us about 25% equity vs. the two players, but it goes up to 37% if we knock out MP2.

This pot might be big enough to justify a check-raise on the flop, hoping to push out MP and to, well, "find out where we are", as much as I hate that term/concept. If we get 3-bet, I think we peel/fold. The problem there is an aggro player will 3-bet AK sometimes and lead the turn only to check the river behind, so I'd rather not put in extra bets there only to fold. So, I guess I'm peeling the flop, MP2 be damned. But I really think this is tough.

Fat Nicky · #16 12-14-2005, 11:32 AM

Well, we 3-bet pre-flop out of position. We didn't get the hand heads up and we got capped. I really don't like putting any more money into this pot.

#17 12-14-2005, 11:37 AM

I'm raising here. The pot is pretty gigundous and AK is certainly possible. I definately want to get Villain #1 out of here. If both villains call I'm going to be checking the turn unless I pick up a 7 or an 8. If Villain #1 folds and Villain #2 calls I'm leading a non A/K turn. If Villain #1 folds and Villain #2 raises I'm calling and folding the turn unless I pick up a straight draw or my 8.

jackdaniels · #18 12-14-2005, 11:48 AM

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Well, we 3-bet pre-flop out of position. We didn't get the hand heads up and we got capped. I really don't like putting any more money into this pot.

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As ugly as this is, I think it may be correct.

Fat Nicky · #19 12-14-2005, 11:53 AM

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This pot might be big enough to justify a check-raise on the flop, hoping to push out MP and to, well, "find out where we are"

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I hate this here as we were basically told with some certainlty "where we are" when our 3-bet was capped pre-flop.

damaniac · #20 12-14-2005, 11:57 AM

Yeah I definetly back-peddled on that. But it's a big pot and I think we do have enough equity to continue. Or at least we would if it were HU. Having a third player really sucks.

Assume for a moment that MP2 folds for one bet on the flop every time. We're looking at 18:5 to call down. Maybe 16:3 if we decide he'll not bet the river with AK/AQs UI. If his range is AA-TT, AKo, AQs, we have about 37% equity or so. We fold if a Q, K, or A falls. Sometimes he checks behind the turn with TT. I think that would be a clear calldown, at least until the river or the board got scary.

But that third player really complicates things.