88

crunchy1 · #1 12-14-2005, 10:11 AM

Villians are average. Both are in the 23-25 VP$IP Range. Villian #1 has a PFR% around 5% - while Villian #2 is closer to 11%. Both have AFs around 1.

Let's do this street by street....

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 (Villian #1) calls, CO (Villian #2) raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets...

Starting with PF. I don't think I can fold this hand against these Villians. I don't like calling because the BB is pretty tight and I'll probably only get 3-way action anyways. There's a good chance I'm ahead of Villian #2 and would rather play HU OOP (versus 3-ways) so I 3-bet.

Sound good?

toss · #2 12-14-2005, 10:14 AM

I'd like preflop a lot more if you were in position or if MP2 wasn't in the hand. I'm tempted to fold here actually.

spydog · #3 12-14-2005, 10:15 AM

I'd rather call this and CR favorable flops. 3-betting bloats the pot OOP and makes it more likely that you will have to showdown the best hand. Calling and checkraising a lot of flops is the only way to take this down before the river.

SnglMaltScotch · #4 12-14-2005, 10:18 AM

I don't love this, but I don't hate it either. I would like it a lot more if we have seen MP2 not limp call in these types of situations. We are in bad position and 3betting creates a bigger pot to chase.

Overall, I think I call and see the flop. Planning to check raise a favorable one.

jackdaniels · #5 12-14-2005, 10:24 AM

I like 3 betting here. You have a very good chance of folding out the original limper and getting heads up. With a hand like 88, you really don't want to be OOP against 2 players, especially since it has already been raise pre-flop, making a flop bet worth calling for anyone with overcards. As to calling here and c/r a favourable flop - what do you do if the flop comes T high and the bet comes from limper? Face this guy with 2 raises pre-flop and let him fold his K/J; KTs; TJo or whatever it is that the kids limp first in with these days. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

thejameser · #6 12-14-2005, 10:28 AM

i don't like it unless CO is a weak ninny(is that a word?) you can push off of most flops. by 3 betting, if you get it HU, CO will be getting 8.5-1 or whatever to peel. with overs he is correct to peel. but, you may have folded out hands with other overcards to hit the flop by 3 betting, so it has advantages as well. i guess crunch, if you think you can push him off of a hand on the flop it is not so bad. i could fold pf, however. this is a sticky situation that has to have alot go right for you to make it profitable.

#7 12-14-2005, 10:29 AM

I'm also tempted to fold this pf. I'm not sure how often 3-betting is going to get us HU, and when it doesn't we are going to have some tough decisions on later streets. Even if we do get HU here, playing this hand OOP is tricky on just about any board. I would be inclined to call if there were another limper or if the BB was loose, and would 3-bet without any limpers... but I think here I just fold. It's an interesting spot though... as I'm definately 3-betting TT and I'm not sure what I'm doing with 99 here.

crunchy1 · #8 12-14-2005, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like it unless CO is a weak ninny(is that a word?) you can push off of most flops.

[/ QUOTE ]
I should've spoke to this in the OP... sorry.

Villian #1 was definitely the ninnier (or ninnyer - please advise on correct suffix? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) of the two. This is a big part of the reason I thought I could get it HU. Villian #2, however, was also capable of laying down.

Neither of these guys were calling stations.

EDIT:
I'm actually kind of surprised that this little piece generated all this discussion. It's not like it's a play I'm always making - but I didn't think it's as far out of line as some of you suggest.

To the people advocating to just fold to the LP raise - why? I'm ALWAYS at least calling in this situation (1 limper and a reasonably aggro PFR).

KNOCKAHOMA · #9 12-14-2005, 10:39 AM

My gut is telling me to fold pre-flop, but if I am going to play this I just call and see what he flop brings.

#10 12-14-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
To the people advocating to just fold to the LP raise - why? I'm ALWAYS at least calling in this situation (1 limper and a reasonably aggro PFR).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious, what would you do with 66 or 77 here? How big does your pair have to be do want to get involved likely 3 handed? I think being OOP against possibly 2 opponents (maybe 3 if the BB wakes up with a hand) Is enough to make me want to wait for a pair higher than 8s. Like I said, I think TT is an easy 3-bet, and I'm still not sure what I'm doing with 99, while 88 I'm okay folding. That's where my line is, where is yours?