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  #11  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:36 AM
tallstack tallstack is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 143
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

I feel like a lot of what you are saying mirrors what I am feeling.

[ QUOTE ]
I want to be making 3BB/100 and I want to feel very comfortable when I move to 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5/10 game does seem crushable, given the selection of players that are on a typical target table. However, I don't think that many people stay that long at 5/10 to find out if they crush this level. For those the run well, or truly destroy the competition, it is a quick move up to 10/20. From my memory, most posters who have since moved up have overall win rates between 1 and 2, so you must be doing many things right. Maybe you just need the increased competition that you would find at a higher level to bring out the best in you? I do agree that it is important from a confidence level to feel like you are crushing a level before moving up.

I don't really have any good advice since I don't fit into the 'crushing' category, but here are some random thougts. I can't imagine that there is any better learning tool than this forum. I am trying to focus on posting here more and reading opponents better - varying my play and trusting reads. I also find it helpful to read a book or forum about a different game then the one I am currently playing. Right now I am reading HOH I and II although 90% of my hands are in 6-max. For whatever reason it keeps things fresh, and I think it helps on the tables.

FWIW, I have read several of your recent posts and I think that your advice is spot on. Maybe you need to get a little out of your comfort zone and take a few stabs at some soft 10/20 tables? Maybe also try a switch in games for a while. Play 100 SNGs and then come back to 6-max. Chances are there will be something that carries over between them to improve your overall game.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2005, 02:49 AM
popeye18 popeye18 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 83
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
Well now I'm playing 5/10, and I'm not finding it too difficult, but certainly not as easy as the 3/6 or 1/2 games. I feel like I'm an average winner, probably somewhere in between 1-2 BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]


How many tables do u play?
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2005, 06:21 AM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 686
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well now I'm playing 5/10, and I'm not finding it too difficult, but certainly not as easy as the 3/6 or 1/2 games. I feel like I'm an average winner, probably somewhere in between 1-2 BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]


How many tables do u play?

[/ QUOTE ]

between 2 and 4, depends on how I'm feeling at the time - I think I should stop 4-tabling for a few thousand hands though just because I can even see myself the mistakes I make as I make them.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2005, 11:00 AM
eisanm eisanm is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

I, too want to kill my games. I am satisfied however if I win at least 1,5bb/100 on any given limit.

Keep in mind that the average player has a winrate of between 0 and -2 bb/100, so you are far better than average already.

I can also see the point in going up to 10-20 instead of trying to improve your WR by 0.5bb/100 if you already win as much as you do at 5-10.

I only play 2-4 so far.

Good luck,
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2005, 11:10 AM
surfdoc surfdoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 140
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like a lot of what you are saying mirrors what I am feeling.

[ QUOTE ]
I want to be making 3BB/100 and I want to feel very comfortable when I move to 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5/10 game does seem crushable, given the selection of players that are on a typical target table. However, I don't think that many people stay that long at 5/10 to find out if they crush this level. For those the run well, or truly destroy the competition, it is a quick move up to 10/20. From my memory, most posters who have since moved up have overall win rates between 1 and 2, so you must be doing many things right. Maybe you just need the increased competition that you would find at a higher level to bring out the best in you? I do agree that it is important from a confidence level to feel like you are crushing a level before moving up.

I don't really have any good advice since I don't fit into the 'crushing' category, but here are some random thougts. I can't imagine that there is any better learning tool than this forum. I am trying to focus on posting here more and reading opponents better - varying my play and trusting reads. I also find it helpful to read a book or forum about a different game then the one I am currently playing. Right now I am reading HOH I and II although 90% of my hands are in 6-max. For whatever reason it keeps things fresh, and I think it helps on the tables.

FWIW, I have read several of your recent posts and I think that your advice is spot on. Maybe you need to get a little out of your comfort zone and take a few stabs at some soft 10/20 tables? Maybe also try a switch in games for a while. Play 100 SNGs and then come back to 6-max. Chances are there will be something that carries over between them to improve your overall game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you guys may be surprised at how few players can and have beat the 5/10 at 3/100 over a large sample...say 100K hands or larger. This is especially true since the rake increase.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2005, 11:11 AM
Wynton Wynton is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 18
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

In my opinion, the only way to "crush" 5/10 or above, i.e., earn 3bb or more, is to make a concerted effort at proper table selection.

From my perspective, there are plenty of bad 5/10 players, but also plenty of good ones. If you just sit down at tables randomly -- or more precisely, if you neglect to move when table conditions are not ideal - you will not reach the 3 bb level.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2005, 03:43 PM
scotty34 scotty34 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 686
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys may be surprised at how few players can and have beat the 5/10 at 3/100 over a large sample...say 100K hands or larger. This is especially true since the rake increase.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aware that it does take an elite player to be able to do this. However, that was my point. Obviously not everyone here will be able to achieve that. The fact that I know its possible however, is what is driving me to want it. I don't know if becoming an elite player as opposed to just a good player is something that can be done just through hard work, or takes natural ability or what. I'm trying to discover some of those things I can do though.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2005, 03:53 PM
surfdoc surfdoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 140
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you guys may be surprised at how few players can and have beat the 5/10 at 3/100 over a large sample...say 100K hands or larger. This is especially true since the rake increase.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aware that it does take an elite player to be able to do this. However, that was my point. Obviously not everyone here will be able to achieve that. The fact that I know its possible however, is what is driving me to want it. I don't know if becoming an elite player as opposed to just a good player is something that can be done just through hard work, or takes natural ability or what. I'm trying to discover some of those things I can do though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think poker is like most other things in that you can get pretty good if you work hard and have average intelligence. To be truly elite, you will need some god given talent and intelligence to go with the dedication.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2005, 05:50 PM
kapw7 kapw7 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 777
Default Re: I don\'t want to be average

I beat Prima 5/10 for 3.10 BB/100 [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Over 1186 hands [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

According to the forum guidelines we shouldn't care about winrate.
Try to explain to your bank manager that your sample size is too small...
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