Low PP + Gutshot then 1card OESD: I wanted to bet the turn.

beset7 · #1 11-29-2005, 03:34 PM

I have no idea what the limp-reraise from MP2 indicates. I'd played about 30 hands with him and he was a 30/6/1. It seemed like an annoyance/tilt type raise to me as opposed to a thought out line. Button was 26/2/1 so I don't think MP2 is counting on a raise when he limps. I bet the river hoping to a call from ace-high. Also, if there hadn't been a limper behind I would have 3-bet preflop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Beset is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button raises, SB calls, Beset calls, MP2 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, Beset calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Beset checks, MP2 bets, Button calls, SB folds, Beset calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Beset checks, MP2 checks, Button checks.

River: (7.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Beset bets, MP2 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

davelin · #2 11-29-2005, 03:37 PM

I think betting the turn here is bad.

#3 11-29-2005, 03:39 PM

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I think betting the turn here is bad.

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+1

Looks good to me.

Entity · #4 11-29-2005, 03:42 PM

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Also, if there hadn't been a limper behind I would have 3-bet preflop.

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This is especially a bad idea at 2/4 and similar limits, and something I wouldn't get in the habit of doing. Generally 3-betting smallish pocket pairs from the blinds is an expensive habit, though there are opponents I will do it against, I think there are better lines given your relative lack of preflop equity with a hand like 44.

Rob

beset7 · #5 11-29-2005, 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, if there hadn't been a limper behind I would have 3-bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is especially a bad idea at 2/4 and similar limits, and something I wouldn't get in the habit of doing. Generally 3-betting smallish pocket pairs from the blinds is an expensive habit, though there are opponents I will do it against, I think there are better lines given your relative lack of preflop equity with a hand like 44.

Rob

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I just noticed there is no section in SSHE on playing like an aggro nutjob versus button steals. Tightening up in the blinds now and I think its going to lower my variance big time and save a lot of bets.

#6 11-29-2005, 03:50 PM

The limp/raise from MP2 can be just about anything. I see this tons of time and mostly if they are around to showdown it's not a limp/raise hand that they have. More often than not, it's a marginal hand they are limp/raising with.

The flop is good for you (could have been better with a 4) but there is no scary card out there except for 2 spades. I like the flop line.

Turn is ok.

River, nice value bet. You are ahead here tons of times. They checking down on the river means weakness and you have the best hand which means MP2 made an annoyed limp/raise and button used his position with 2 broadways.

Which is what brings me to the next question here. Why do you guys think it's bad to bet the turn? I'm in the same line as beset here with a bet since it's highly likely MP2 3 bet with air (higher cards than the board tho) and button raised because of position and high cards. His action on the flop tells me he don't have a pp and don't have a made hand yet so the 2 of spades which gives us an OESD is good news for us. I would probably bet here 75% of the time since I don't mind being called aslong as the river isn't another spade or A or K but that is a chance I must take to increase the pot where I am likely ahead.

Nikademus · #7 11-29-2005, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what the limp-reraise from MP2 indicates. I'd played about 30 hands with him and he was a 30/6/1. It seemed like an annoyance/tilt type raise to me as opposed to a thought out line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Likely it was someone trying to build the pot to help with drawing odds later. JT? Just a guess.

sean c · #8 11-29-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, if there hadn't been a limper behind I would have 3-bet preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is especially a bad idea at 2/4 and similar limits, and something I wouldn't get in the habit of doing. Generally 3-betting smallish pocket pairs from the blinds is an expensive habit, though there are opponents I will do it against, I think there are better lines given your relative lack of preflop equity with a hand like 44.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I just noticed there is no section in SSHE on playing like an aggro nutjob versus button steals. Tightening up in the blinds now and I think its going to lower my variance big time and save a lot of bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

With one limper in it is unlikely that the button's raise is just an out and out steal attempt. He probably has a little something here. Another good reason to just call these position raises vs 3-betting is it gives you the chance to check/raise a good flop and lead the turn.

Aaron W. · #9 11-29-2005, 04:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I just noticed there is no section in SSHE on playing like an aggro nutjob versus button steals. Tightening up in the blinds now and I think its going to lower my variance big time and save a lot of bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Steals" are often just raises with pretty solid hands that they happened to pick up in position. I wait until I see evidence that he's a stealer before considering any sort of aggro blind defense. Remember that players at these levels are generally too passive.

beset7 · #10 11-29-2005, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just noticed there is no section in SSHE on playing like an aggro nutjob versus button steals. Tightening up in the blinds now and I think its going to lower my variance big time and save a lot of bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Steals" are often just raises with pretty solid hands that they happened to pick up in position. I wait until I see evidence that he's a stealer before considering any sort of aggro blind defense. Remember that players at these levels are generally too passive.

[/ QUOTE ]

So given the passivity, knowing that it will be a 3-handed pot, is it even worth calling with 22-66 in the BB with one mp limper and a button raise if it's just for set value?