Flat-out adorable

EverettKings · #1 11-11-2005, 12:22 AM

I'm rarely this creative but this line felt right.

Stars 150, 350 runners down to 90 ish.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t2385)
Hero (t5055)
UTG+1 (t9239)
MP1 (t2855)
MP2 (t4345)
MP3 (t7645)
CO (t4383)
Button (t5180)
SB (t7425)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t600, 1 fold, MP1 calls t600, 6 folds.

Flop: (t1400) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) (Effective stacks: t2255)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t600, Hero calls t600.

Turn: (t2600) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) (Effective stacks: t1655)
Hero bets t1800

So... too cute, or downright adorable?

Everett

Firefly · #2 11-11-2005, 12:34 AM

I kinda like it, but i dunno if he folds a medium pocket pair enough for this to be profitable. It's creative atleast [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

EverettKings · #3 11-11-2005, 12:41 AM

A medium pocket pair is exactly the hand i was targeting. I don't think I can scare him out on the flop, so this little whim popped into my head.

Lloyd · #4 11-11-2005, 01:08 AM

Explain your thought process. And what are you trying to represent? What hand range are you putting him on?

EverettKings · #5 11-11-2005, 02:52 AM

Fair enough.

So preflop he has to have a hand of some kind. 77+/AQ+, maybe AJ/KQ.

Flop comes down J84r. Normally I just fire again and go from there, BUT here he only has 2200 and the pot is 1400. I can't bet and still get away. There is no way to probe for information. If I bet it will be a push (or effectively a push), no way around it. And there is no way I get medium pairs to fold here. Just no way. So basically I can get AK/AQ/KQ to fold, but everything else stays. Ugh.

So I check. Put yourself in his spot. You see an EP raiser to 600, call, and he checks a mediumish flop? WTF??? I mean MP here was definitely not expecting that. If he has a hand like 77 or KQ or maybe even TT here he's not likely getting frisky. He more than likely to raise an eyebrow and check behind. Seriously what kind of raiser doesn't c-bet there? When I checked I was going to give up the pot if he made a committing bet, which I expected from hands like TT and AJ and overpairs and stuff. I also expected a check from a lot of marginal hands, and then I could hit the turn or push it with (I think) more FE.

So then he bets 600. OK this is the next best thing to a confused check. If he makes this bet with AJ well then good for him. But this smells marginal, though I don't feel like if I push I can quite get 99 to fold. I really think 99 type stuff sighs and calls if I push the flop there. So I figured I could call and push any turn.

But why? Why on earth would you do that? Well, what the hell can he make of it all? The pfr checks and calls when I make my quizzical bet, then puts me all in on the turn? Huh?

He's lost. I really think my hand line smells strong if anything. It does not look like I'm trying to get him out of the hand (at all), and my bet is big enough that he can get away (1600 into 2400).

There was no good way to play this hand with these crappy stacks, but I thought this was the best I could do.

Everett

Punker · #6 11-11-2005, 02:59 AM

I don't see this line as preferable to checkraising all in on the flop, which more strongly represents a pair of some kind. Your opponent has also shown quite a lot of strength cold calling preflop for a quarter of his stack (which I assume he would be unlikely to do with a small pair as you describe) and then betting into you on the flop, leaving him in a situation where he has an M of less than 2 (given the ante).

Assuming he's a normal opponent (and you don't indicate otherwise), I'd be expecting to be called and be behind. I don't think any better hand will fold to this bet (including AK), and I don't think any worse hands will call.

I vote too cute.

EverettKings · #7 11-11-2005, 03:00 AM

This guy was obv on the tight/passive side, not terribly tight or terribly passive but, you know, a little.

EverettKings · #8 11-11-2005, 03:01 AM

What's a better line? check/fold? open push? check/push?

Exitonly · #9 11-11-2005, 03:04 AM

i think check/push is better than push.

if you push you're only getting called by hands that have you beat (though you should still have 6 outs) but if you check-push, you should be able to get your money in vs missed overs some of the time. Then if he checks behind i probably push any turn.

Annulus · #10 11-11-2005, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This guy was obv on the tight/passive side, not terribly tight or terribly passive but, you know, a little.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think his "weak" bet after the flop could be JJ or 88? And how can we say hes "obviously on the tight/passive side" based on this information you provided?