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  #1  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:20 AM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Flopping the stone nuts

Playing party .50/1.00. Full table. In the BB. My hand is Ad,2H,5C,6C. 7 handed pre-flop with no raise. Flop is 3C,4C,7C. SB checks. What is my play, & why?
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:21 AM
IronDragon1 IronDragon1 is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

::sigh::
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

[ QUOTE ]
What is my play, & why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold. Because stupid questions require stupid answers.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:43 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

I would bet/raise everytime the action came around to me. There is no point in slowplaying here and you may get a ton of action if someone actually has a nut flush and nut low. Crappy lows and straights or non-nut flushes will probably come along for the ride even if you can sustain a raising war with someone who obviously has A2 with the nut flush. Remember, you only gain by slowplaying if your opponent puts in more bets later, because you don't push hard early. A2 with a nut flush is going to give you plenty of action on the flop but may slow down if the board pairs, so get action while you can (of course now you may get action from a FH or quads as well). Plus no one will probably fold trips, straights, or other made lows. I don't think there is any question how to play this hand.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2005, 12:46 AM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

The question, of course, is how to extract the maximum return. Two different good players had differing opinions about whether to start with a check or a bet. I don' think they were stupid, but thanks for your input.
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  #6  
Old 11-09-2005, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

Betting on this flop is retarded 7 handed. For 50c you may well fold out a lot of weak lows and flushes as well chances to catch straights, sets, boats, two pair, etc. This is a check/call flop, or check raise if it's a loose table and someone soon after you bets and gets heaps of callers. Get a nice big pot going so you can hammer the later streets and keep as many people as possible in the hand.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2005, 01:11 AM
benwood benwood is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

IN the actual hand, I bet out & the whole field folded.
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  #8  
Old 11-09-2005, 01:59 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

[ QUOTE ]
Betting on this flop is retarded 7 handed. For 50c you may well fold out a lot of weak lows and flushes as well chances to catch straights, sets, boats, two pair, etc. This is a check/call flop, or check raise if it's a loose table and someone soon after you bets and gets heaps of callers. Get a nice big pot going so you can hammer the later streets and keep as many people as possible in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair or better and almost any low will call you down at these levels, but will never bet here. You are pissing away the flop bets, but aren't gaining any action that you wouldn't already get on later streets. 2 pair will call and pay off big when it fills up which is more money in the pot than when you let them catch the FH which they would have paid to draw to anyway. I think you grossly overestimate the typical party .5/1 player. I also think you suffer from slowplay-itis. You seem to think if you have a big hand you must slowplay, but you really only want to if you have a big hand in such a way that the deck is crippled and no one else can have much at all. That is just not the case here. There are plenty of hands that will call down, but never be able to bet aggressively, so charge them at every street. Of course, if you end up against a nut flush you will have a bingo and likely get every street capped no matter what you do, but there are plenty of payoff hands that you should extract value from on every street.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2005, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

[ QUOTE ]
Two pair or better and almost any low will call you down at these levels, but will never bet here. You are pissing away the flop bets, but aren't gaining any action that you wouldn't already get on later streets. 2 pair will call and pay off big when it fills up which is more money in the pot than when you let them catch the FH which they would have paid to draw to anyway. I think you grossly overestimate the typical party .5/1 player. I also think you suffer from slowplay-itis.

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It's a scary flop for any low or any high except the nut flush with low, so don't spook people by betting from EP. This is simple stuff. The more people seeing the turn the more likely someone will catch something. We're not talking about an AA3 flop when you hold A234 or a 345r flop when you hold A267. You don't slowplay those.

[ QUOTE ]
IN the actual hand, I bet out & the whole field folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to be results oriented, but...I WIN.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2005, 06:09 AM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Default Re: Flopping the stone nuts

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two pair or better and almost any low will call you down at these levels, but will never bet here. You are pissing away the flop bets, but aren't gaining any action that you wouldn't already get on later streets. 2 pair will call and pay off big when it fills up which is more money in the pot than when you let them catch the FH which they would have paid to draw to anyway. I think you grossly overestimate the typical party .5/1 player. I also think you suffer from slowplay-itis.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a scary flop for any low or any high except the nut flush with low, so don't spook people by betting from EP. This is simple stuff. The more people seeing the turn the more likely someone will catch something. We're not talking about an AA3 flop when you hold A234 or a 345r flop when you hold A267. You don't slowplay those.

[ QUOTE ]
IN the actual hand, I bet out & the whole field folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to be results oriented, but...I WIN.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except you don't, if nobody has anything then of course they will fold, whether or not you bet the flop or check and bet the river. However you have to bet that flop, because it's the only way of getting lots of money in the pot if someone has A2 and a flush. The same applies for pot limit omaha/8, you must bet and hope someone has something.
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