K4o

crunchy1 · #1 11-03-2005, 10:05 AM

MP2 - LAG (40/13/2)
Everyone else - Typical Party 2/4 players. Loose/Passive PF; Many mistakes after the flop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $3.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (7.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

What do you guys think?

flopmonster · #2 11-03-2005, 10:24 AM

I think this is a clear fold p/f. That said I don't like the raise on the flop, surprised you got everyone to fold there...that said turn and river look good.

crunchy1 · #3 11-03-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a clear fold p/f.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You're going to need to give a more detailed explanation to convince me.

flopmonster · #4 11-03-2005, 10:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a clear fold p/f.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You're going to need to give a more detailed explanation to convince me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just would not like to play k4o in a multiway pot. Could easily be dominated here and the hand has very little value. This could get 3 bet or capped preflop as there are still players left to act. This seems clear to me, can you please
elaborate on this call?

flopmonster · #5 11-03-2005, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
MP2 - LAG (40/13/2)
Everyone else - Typical Party 2/4 players. Loose/Passive PF; Many mistakes after the flop.

I don't think the amount of mistakes these players make compensate for the call still. The hand I believe is just too trashy.

#6 11-03-2005, 10:41 AM

Preflop: fold. I think that you need to give us more of a reason why this hand is playable, and not the other way around. 13 pfr isn't THAT high. You are in bad shape against- any pair that is raising here, a bunch of better kings, Ax. Wait for a better spot against this guy. You have good position on him, wait for a hand and 3 bet him. You don't want to be playing a multiway pot with K4o.

Redd · #7 11-03-2005, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a clear fold p/f.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You're going to need to give a more detailed explanation to convince me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just such a weak hand to play against a limper, a semiLAG and some potentially loose blinds. What sort of flop are you hoping for?

thejameser · #8 11-03-2005, 10:49 AM

why not bet the turn when you have fold and suckout equity and likely get a free showdown if called? easy fold to a raise as you are probably not getting pushed of the best hand. plus you are getting your money in when you can still improve. i guess you are trying to encourage a bluff from Ace high?

crunchy1 · #9 11-03-2005, 11:00 AM

Some of my thoughts, quick:

- I'm getting 6-to-1 immediate on my call in a pot where I've already contributed 1.5SBs to the pot

- I'm not worried about these players raising behind me. Which probably pushes my odds up to 8- or 9-to-1

- The raiser is a lag and could be isolating a weak PF limper with a wide range - the chance that I'm dominated isn't as large from this player

I'm not saying that PF is perfect or not debateable - but I don't think it's as clear-cut as some are stating. The turn check was, in fact, an attempt to induce a river bluff.

toss · #10 11-03-2005, 11:01 AM

Its true you're up against on donkeys, but you're just not getting enough PF. Fold.