Now I know what its like to play against me - Page 3

dmk · #21 10-19-2005, 03:03 PM

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the only thing that sucks about calling a turn bet is that on ub, its almost always just a betpot. and you hate to have to just call that on both the turn and river.

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Every time he had bet the turn, he had pushed the river, and I expected this hand to be no different, if he bet the turn and I called. Stupid bet pot button.

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i hear ya. this is why i avoid taking a more passive line on UB when it would normally be ok on other sites. checking and then calling a turn bet is def not an option then.

dmk · #22 10-19-2005, 03:06 PM

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Well,
If this guy is truely "very aggressive" and we've seen him make 2 non-aggressive plays wouldn't it make sense to put him in monster/crap land. And hense try to play a small pot.
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I pick the top line because I've seen the guy complete a smallish opening bet and check to me (hense I think he may fold)

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fwiw, w/ these stacks, he's much more likely to c/r the flop than bet out w/ any type of hand, so i don't think you can use "he checked so he's weak" as an argument.

rockythecat99 · #23 10-19-2005, 03:07 PM

yes he would if he is afraid of KQ or AK. Plus its heads up not a multiway pot.

woodguy · #24 10-19-2005, 03:08 PM

I've started to ignore suits when heads up unless there are 3 on board. I feel that overall I get more value from my good hands than I lose when I let a flush get the somewhat cheaply or free.

If he is aggro the crux of my plan is to put in the last bet.

Aggro guys like betting thin, but not always calling thin.

Check and push his turn bet, if he checks the turn, I may check behind if its not a club and its not a broadway.

I may make a weak lead on the turn so I can get in the last raise, or just fold to his turn raise if I don't like the way it feels.

Regards,
Woodguy

Lloyd · #25 10-19-2005, 03:09 PM

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If he's a thinking and aggressive player, if he bet the flop I think he raises assuming you wouldn't play a good hand that way.

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wouldn't this be a reason to bet the flop (i.e. he's assuming you are weak and wouldn't bet top pair that way) so that you can push if he chrasies you?

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Well, I think it's a balance between maximizing folding equity and giving him a free card. There's about 6k in the pot on the flop. If MLG bets 3k, a pot-sized raise would be to 15k and that's about half of MLG's stack. So I'd think that the villain might possibly just push and I really didn't want to face a decision of calling all my chips with TT there. If we call and he bets and then we push we've got some folding equity.

#26 10-19-2005, 03:10 PM

I think a lot of you have outthought this hand (granted, I could've easily underthought the hand). We raise from MP, get called by the BB who checks to us on a K-high, draw-heavy flop. I think he's given up a good % of the time and a bet of 3-3.5k will take it down enough to make it profitable. Our hand's not good enough to try to extract more here as there are 18 scare cards that could fall on the turn, so I hate checking behind here.

I fold to a c/r because we were an MP pf raiser and the flop came down K-high, so I doubt a c/r is a pure bluff, and most semibluffing hands have very good equity against us.

Many of you seem to disagree with me; how often does a "very aggressive" BB check a K here? How often does he c/r bluff here?

Lloyd · #27 10-19-2005, 03:12 PM

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the only thing that sucks about calling a turn bet is that on ub, its almost always just a betpot. and you hate to have to just call that on both the turn and river.

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Every time he had bet the turn, he had pushed the river, and I expected this hand to be no different, if he bet the turn and I called. Stupid bet pot button.

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This tips me to calling the flop, pushing the turn (presuming he leads out). Calling the turn would no longer be an option. Push or fold.

SossMan · #28 10-19-2005, 03:14 PM

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I think your are interpreting more betting room than exists. If he's going to raise the flop I would expect it generally to be all-in. I have a hard time believing he would make a small cr with the plan of folding to a push.

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so if you bet 3k and he raises to 9k, he's auto calling your remaining 23k? He would be getting about 2.7 so maybe so.
Would he really push if you bet 3k w/ a hand that you are losing to? The fact remains that he is unlikely to have you beat here on the flop, he is likely to raise your bet, you have plenty of scare cards to worry about, so I would try to end it here.

rockythecat99 · #29 10-19-2005, 03:16 PM

I know I would check raise here with air. MLG said he was one of the most aggressive players on his table. If I have that read I know a good percentage of the time he has missed this flop and is making a standard continuation bet. Plus villain is aggressive so he makes this play a lot imo.

jon_1van · #30 10-19-2005, 03:18 PM

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Well,
If this guy is truely "very aggressive" and we've seen him make 2 non-aggressive plays wouldn't it make sense to put him in monster/crap land. And hense try to play a small pot.
...
I pick the top line because I've seen the guy complete a smallish opening bet and check to me (hense I think he may fold)

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fwiw, w/ these stacks, he's much more likely to c/r the flop than bet out w/ any type of hand, so i don't think you can use "he checked so he's weak" as an argument.

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Its not so much "he check so he's weak". He didn't raise PF so I'm not worrying too much about AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,(maybe KQ). And because the opening bet was kinda small he'd be more likely to play along with many hands. In my experience people who are very aggressive get noted as aggressive because they play a bunch of hands (aggressively)...if they were tight and aggressive sticking mainly to premium hands they'd be hard to label as aggressive because we wouldn't see them play too much. Therefore we can't shorten the hand range of our opponent too much.

So I'm not super worried about the K. But I am worried about checking the flop only to see a Q or something like 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] . In which case the impending turn bet the opponent WILL make could be ANYTHING. This is good when he's betting air but he could very well have just caught a 2nd pair on any brick or picked up a higher pair with any overcard.

So I choose to take a stab now when I'm reasonably sure I'm ahead than wait till later.