Stop 'n Gos are fun! (T3s from the BB)

Harv72b · #1 10-18-2005, 07:26 PM

Full ring table that was 3-handed when I stumbled onto it, and is now quickly filling up.

Reads: Poster in the CO & Button are unknown. SB is pretty well unknown, but in watching a few hands while waiting to post he's looked like the live one at this table. I'm posting in my first hand at the table, so no table image.

In the interest of saving some preflop debate, I called the raise because: A), I'm sooted & expecting 7:1 pot odds; B), Button should be raising with practically any two cards in this situation; and C), I don't respect SB's coldcall any more than I respect the openraise from Button.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, CO folds.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, intending to 3-bet & call a cap...

Anyone think of alternate lines that balance max profit when ahead with minimum loss when not?

#2 10-18-2005, 07:29 PM

Thats how I play it. A CR may scare him into a call down. Hopefully he has the Nuts flush.

Adam22 · #3 10-18-2005, 07:48 PM

you couldn't pay me to play T3s in that situation regardless of the favorable things you mentioned.

brazilio · #4 10-18-2005, 08:43 PM

I like the whole thing up to the river, but I'm checkraising the river and calling a 3-bet. I think very often he's going to call the river gaybet with a somewhat weaker flush. Also, think not posting sh hands in hush is a mistake.

Harv72b · #5 10-18-2005, 08:49 PM

Meh....like I said, it was a full table, just short-handed at that moment...and I don't know if Button has any clue about HUSH or not.

My thinking with donking the river is that there are a lot of hands (overpair, naked A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) that could check through, but call a bet.

brazilio · #6 10-18-2005, 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Meh....like I said, it was a full table, just short-handed at that moment...and I don't know if Button has any clue about HUSH or not.

My thinking with donking the river is that there are a lot of hands (overpair, naked A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) that could check through, but call a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think an overpair with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is checking that river, that river pairing is good for him. Naked A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] with a mid pair is the only thing I can really think of. I think you're going to get only 1 bet out of a flush more than you'll get 1 you wouldn't have gotten otherwise, but that's kind of table-specific. I haven't played 5/10 full at shorthanded tables before, what's the general makeup? Any better than 5/10 6?

shant · #7 10-18-2005, 09:23 PM

I like it all but I'd checkraise that river.

Harv72b · #8 10-18-2005, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played 5/10 full at shorthanded tables before, what's the general makeup? Any better than 5/10 6?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't, normally, either. But the full tables all looked bad, and a quick eval of this one said there was some money to be made.

With 20/20 hindsight, the table was about par for a good 6max table at this point, but I didn't really know that at the time.

Harv72b · #9 10-19-2005, 01:27 AM

I'm curious about the reasoning behind a river check/raise. Even assuming that Button will bet whatever he's been raising with, it seems like the only real advantage would be possibly getting one more BB out of SB. If I c/r, a reasonable player would be unlikely to 3-bet with any hand that I beat (maybe the nut flush, maybe not...but especially if SB calls the first bet, it'd make more sense to go for the overcall without a boat of his own). Basically, I represent more strength by check/raising than I do by just leading out.

It seemed like bet/3-bet was more likely to get extra bets on the river, at least given the way Button played the hand (and it avoids the possibility that it gets checked through). But I dunno...I'm asking. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

#10 10-19-2005, 02:07 AM

Harv-

I think the problem with betting the river after being raised on the turn is jumping up and down, saying "Hi I have the full house!" If you get raised here it's someone saying "I don't believe you." You 3-bet and if someone caps, they're saying "I can beat your crappy full house" and you lose.

What I'm trying to prove other than I can't write dialogue: Betting the river will clue in thinking players to the possibility that you can beat a flush. Checking the river tells everyone you're worried about the flush. By the time you raise, you've collected extra bets. The river will rarely be checked through with mr. overpair or flush in the hand; most online players don't lose sleep at night worrying about trifectas.