Play a Hand With the Masters #2 Results and Panel Comments

[Lloyd]

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Good work, can't wait for the next one. Though I remember the last time you said who followed the panelists desicions the closest. Decided there was no reason for that this time?

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About an extra hour of work [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

After that, I agree with flop call, but still get my money in on the turn. Good input from all of you, and thanks for the time put into this.

[Ryendal]

I want to say I finally found this hand very interesting.
I have some few questions to understand.
Because of my poor english, some questions could appear to be stupid, but I really want to undersand.

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When I limp with AK it is for stack protection reasons [...]
An example of a time when I would limp with AK would be at a table where the avg stack for the table is 100bb and the avg stack for the field is less than that

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What do you mean by field ?

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one or two gapped suited connectors

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Here it's only a language problem, what are "gapped" suited connectors ?

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He basically tells me that he is committing his stack

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Does someone could remind me how we calculate when someone is commited please

[the shadow]

Thanks Lloyd, Giga, MLG, and Che!

OK, let's look at it from the villian's perspective.

P/F: He calls a standard-size raise from the BB with QTs. OK.

Flop: He flops a straight and decides to go for a C/R. OK again. I'm a little surprised by the size of the raise, but it looks like he wants to bleed hero and not risk scaring him off.

Turn: The 7d doesn't scare villian and probably won't scare hero, who clearly has some piece of the board. Villian bets a little less than 1/2 the pot. Still trying to bleed hero. Still OK.

River: This is the action that has me thinking. Villian certainly isn't thrilled to see a 3d diamond hit the board. He checks. My question is why? Is villian scared of hero filling a flush? Or is villian changing tactics and trying to trap? Given that villian's been trying to bleed hero, I doubt that it's the latter.

That in turn raises two questions for me. First, what would villian do if hero pushed, as many posters had argued? Sure he's pot-committed, but he just before he hit the call button, he might have 2d thoughts like Giga did. I voted to call the turn and check the river, but it seems to me that the full history leaves it an open question as to whether the hero should have pushed the river.

Second, should villian have pushed the river, despite the 3d diamond on the board? It seems to me that villian would have to put hero on Kd-Jd for him to stick around in the hand this long. Since the odds of hero having that hand are long, I woulda pushed the river if I were the villian.

The Shadow

[EverettKings]

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That is the stituation you would have here. You all have $100M and you're playing for a $1M. What's the point? You want to either take a very large portion of someone's stack or not even bother. Why? Because what does it matter if you now have $101M when the rest of the field averages $15M?

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Thats.... actually a very good point. And I think that's what Giga felt like when he said "but it was for my whole stack, so I grudgingly checked."

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Good work, can't wait for the next one. Though I remember the last time you said who followed the panelists desicions the closest. Decided there was no reason for that this time?

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About an extra hour of work [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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understandable

[the shadow]

Field refers to the rest of the tournament at the other tables.

Examples might help on the suited connectors. JsTs is a suited connector. Js9s is a one-gapped suited connector. Js8s is a two-gapped suited connector.

The Shadow

[Ryendal]

Yes, Thank you Lloyd, Gigabet, MLG and CHE.

Thank you the shadow for your answers.

For my question related to " commiting the stack ", I was not sure, but now I guess it's with an intuitive point of view we can see it.
It's seems true for me that by betting 800 instead of 600 the villain is "commiting his stack". The 800 bet seems awkward for a bluff attempt.

[maddog2030]

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That is the stituation you would have here. You all have $100M and you're playing for a $1M. What's the point? You want to either take a very large portion of someone's stack or not even bother. Why? Because what does it matter if you now have $101M when the rest of the field averages $15M?

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I understand the concept of declining marginal utility and it entered my mind that was what he was talking about. However, his stated reason was: "The value in raising off the limpers, IMO, is greatly reduced by the fact that you will usually win a small pot, or lose a big one." This is a basic cash game concept and has to do with the 100BB stacks. You always want to try to avoid these situations, regardless of what the field's average stack is.

So my question was mainly what added significance did a lower field stack provide to the situation? It seemed to me that it had more to do with the value of the chips you lose than the ones you gain. However, your explanation seems to essentially be saying to turn down a +EV situation (just that your argument is its less EV than it may appear), which I don't think is what he meant.

[grandgnu]

So Gigabet, I advocated a push on the river. I figured Villian was scared of either the flush or boat possibilities. You could easily be on suited cards that hit the river, or the magical A/J.

I don't mind the check, leaving yourself the possibility of staying alive with a decent enough stack to mount a comeback.

But, do you believe there was any possibility of Villian folding? If so, how often do you believe he would fold to your push on that scary river?