Return of The Good, The Bad....The Ugly? (10/07)

Harv72b · #1 10-07-2005, 11:42 PM

It seemed like this thread was creating less & less interest, so I let it go for a while. But I had a couple of hands tonight that I thought would be perfect for the concept, so here we are back again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

For those unfamiliar with the concept, I'm posting two hands. One, I think I played well. The other, I think I played poorly. I'd love to hear any comments, criticism, or suggestions on alternate lines that anyone has on either or both hands.

Tonight, both hands focus on flop decisions.

Hand 1

Reads: I only had about 20 hands on villain, but over that span he's been a little loose, a little prone to call down with (obviously) beaten hands, and has raised preflop exactly zero times. I'm still on my second orbit at the table, and haven't shown down a hand yet.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls....

__________________________________________________ _________

Hand 2

Reads: UTG has TAG numbers over a 50 hand sample, but hasn't impressed me at all in the hands I've seen. He might be steaming a little, or else overconfident in his ability to outplay the several loose/passives at this table. Button is unknown. SB is a well-known & respected 2+2'er.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, Button calls, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, Button calls, SB caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls....

toss · #2 10-08-2005, 12:23 AM

Hand 1 Almost 9:1 is good enough for me.

Hand 2 a Cap PF, check flop is highly alarming. The only reason I would see SB doing this is if he thinks he can actually Checkraise after doing something crazy like that.

flair1239 · #3 10-08-2005, 12:30 AM

Hand #1... I am calling as well. However a lot of my reason for calling would be, if it was a good table and I intended to stay a while... I dont want to give my friend to my left a license to make my life miserable for the nex 45 min.

With a little more info, I could be talked into a checkraise, but the early read seems to be he is a caller.

I am looking for turn improvement though.

BTW, in this situation the potential flush draw does not count to heavily against my gutshot outs, and I am not writing off my Ace at this point either.

So I would call to, but I will need improvement on the turn to continue.

SackUp · #4 10-08-2005, 02:20 AM

Hand 1: I think this call is fine. I think all your Q outs are good and I still think you may be decent on your A outs, though I would not give them that much credit. c/f the turn UI.

Hand 2: SBs play is rather curious indeed. The cap c/r line is one of those odd line that is hard to pinpoint.

I'm somewhat tempted to take the free card on the flop given that I'm likely at best drawing to a split pot UI and Button limped in after only one limper so I'm not too concerned about him. I'll take the cheap SD if possible and wait to put money in until I improve or am forced to.

PokerSparky · #5 10-08-2005, 02:30 AM

Hand 1: Fine IMO.

Hand 2: You say SB is a "respected 2+2er," but I can't think of one hand that makes this a good check on the flop. Far be it for me to question the play of a "respected 2+2er," so I might be missing something.

detruncate · #6 10-08-2005, 03:32 AM

Hand 1 I think is a pretty easy call. We have to think that our gutshot + A is good often enough given his range.

We're most often crushed in Hand 2 unless Villain's strategy in this hand is focused on making our life miserable.

I don't like the flop bet either. We're not pushing him off AK on this flop, I don't think he's raising light, and he's even less likely to be capping light with 2 other TAGs in the hand (one of whom 3-bet). We're inviting a c/r and don't need to protect against anything. I take my free card and hope to turn the first of my fps crushing runners.

Harv72b · #7 10-08-2005, 11:17 AM

I should've mentioned this in the first post, but in Hand 1, I'm operating on the assumption that I'm up against a big PP or flopped set, and calling strictly for the gutshot draw. I'll be forced to call down if I turn an A, but I won't expect to win w/o the Q.

sean c · #8 10-08-2005, 11:38 AM

I think hand one is an easy call. Hand two is strange i guess sb could know you would bet if checked to and try and trap button but he would have to have a very strong hand to do that with which means your probably drawing close to dead.

elindauer · #9 10-08-2005, 11:42 AM

Hand 1 is a call for just the gutshot, never mind that you can catch a pair and win. Also, I'm calling if I have anything close to the right odds since I don't want this guy making plays at me all night in this spot.

Hand 2, I fold. cap preflop check-raise flop often means you are drawing dead. Don't peel only to catch a 2nd best hand. After making this fold of course, you'll need to keep an eye on this guy as he may take some liberties with you in the future. Look for a spot to pick off a bluff with a weaker than normal hand, if he seems to have a monster next time you face off too.

good luck.
eric

Dagger78 · #10 10-08-2005, 11:59 AM

I'm torn on the first hand, I can see just as many reasons for folding as calling, I think I might call just so that he doens't try this again without a hand. Plus if he's a bit passive postflop you may get a free card on the turn if he checks behind with JJ,QQ, or AQ. Fold turn UI.

In hand 2 I might take the free card on the flop when the SB caps and checks the flop, but honestly I have ZERO idea what hand he would cap and check the flop. It only make sense that he does this with AA or KK. If he capped here with QQ or JJ, he would want to bet out so you raise with AK(which is what he hopes you have) and force the button to call 2 cold. I guess he could be making this play with AK, but I don't know what his plan is there.

Is this a player we can expect to only cap AA,KK,QQ,AKs, and AKo in the small blind? Would a good TAG be capping anything less than this OOP 3-handed with one good player in the pot?