Party 750k cripple-me hand

You're at an awkward stack size, so I don't like the steal. I think, given stack size, you have to fold preflop. I like your play in a cash game.

[locutus2002]

I've never folded KK preflop and I don't plan to start doing it now.

But I think AA is more likely than KK is more likely than QQ is more likely than JJ and TT is unlikely.



Of course I donked out trying to steal from the button with Q9 (with 10XBB).

[Gamblor]

I pushed, and SB showed AsQs. Naturally an Ace hit the turn.

I find myself stuck in these late Party tournaments. With 1500 stack size at the start, and always somewhere around 10-15 BB by the money (even if I'm above average), it's invariably some weird hand that started as a steal that puts me out.

Is this that bad of a time to try to steal? How can I possibly fold a suited connectorish hand getting 4.5:1 preflop and position on the flop?

[kuro]

I don't see how you can call the min-reraise and then fold when you make top pair after villain bets out on a low flop. What kind of flop are you looking to continue on with?

I think you're better off folding to the minraise because your hand doesn't fair well enough seeing 3 cards against the range of hands that a short villain minraises with from the sb.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can call the min-reraise and then fold when you make top pair after villain bets out on a low flop. What kind of flop are you looking to continue on with?

I think you're better off folding to the minraise because your hand doesn't fair well enough seeing 3 cards against the range of hands that a short villain minraises with from the sb.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is that range of hands? Many people see the miniraise as so scary that the range of hands does not even include the hand that the guy actually held.

Players sometimes put in mini-raises and reraises to conceal a huge hand, but that does not mean every mini-raise conceals a big hand, and I think people are so eager to avoid being suckered that they make terrible folds.

Fold PF to the reraise, even though it is a min-raise, more often than not you are just throwing chips away with this gapper in this spot, and I'd rather conserve for a better spot than this. You will still have an average stack, and are more likely to get action after the table has seen you being capable of folding to a min-raise.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold PF to the reraise, even though it is a min-raise, more often than not you are just throwing chips away with this gapper in this spot, and I'd rather conserve for a better spot than this. You will still have an average stack, and are more likely to get action after the table has seen you being capable of folding to a min-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand how it can be a good thing to let the table see you fold to a min-raise. Sure, it works great if you pick up AA next orbit and someone decides to play back at you, but to win the tournament you are going to need to make money with hands much worse than AA. Encouraging people to take shots at you is not the way to make that happen.

You simply have monster odds to call the min-raise and I really don't care if you lose those chips "more often than not," as that is not what odds are all about.

[grandgnu]

I like the steal attempt (I would've just raised 2.5x the BB in that spot though)

The min-re-raise had me putting him on A/A or K/K or A/K in that spot as well. A "please call me!" bet. I didn't expect him to have the A/Q, which would normally induce a push if he's going to play out of position.

He played it rather donkish. I can't see you getting away from the flop once you hit your gin card, and you wound up ahead of him. But I might fold to his re-raise and wait for a better spot as well, since he's representing a hand that has me beat, and I have enough chips to be averaged stack, and position to wait for a better opportunity.

When blinds are lower, I rarely fold to the min-raise. But this was a re-raise of your initial raise, and I don't think I like committing 6x the BB on a 10/8 hand, although pot odds aren't so bad and your opponent made a failed bluff on the flop.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can call the min-reraise and then fold when you make top pair after villain bets out on a low flop. What kind of flop are you looking to continue on with?

I think you're better off folding to the minraise because your hand doesn't fair well enough seeing 3 cards against the range of hands that a short villain minraises with from the sb.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is that range of hands? Many people see the miniraise as so scary that the range of hands does not even include the hand that the guy actually held.

Players sometimes put in mini-raises and reraises to conceal a huge hand, but that does not mean every mini-raise conceals a big hand, and I think people are so eager to avoid being suckered that they make terrible folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Open min-raises... not so scary.
Min-raises after some limpers... pretty scary.
Min-re-raises... [censored] scary.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes T64, BB bets 5000 of his remaining 9500. I push.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kind of bet screams "I want more money in the pot" and would induce me to fold. Any time someone makes a relatively small bet compared to pot size, yet that bet is a majority of their chips, that tells me they're just aching to double up with the rest of their chips.

The preflop call is tough to turn down on pot odds. But again, that min-raise preflop screams once again "power hand" that he's trying to milk. Not saying it wasn't worth a call preflop, but I'd be very cautious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that you should have folded the flop.
Nothing wrong with trying to steal the blinds. And I too have a huge problem folding to miniraises, especially minireraises because I always think that they're giving me a cheap chance to stack them with a miracle flop.
As it were, here on the flop he pot-committed himself. There's no way he's laying this down and you have top pair, crappy kicker. Sometimes you fold the best hand here bit I think most of the time you're way behind.