Deeper and deeper - Page 3

rory · #21 07-01-2005, 11:13 AM

So to recap:

Flop is 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. We bet, BB raises and the button folds. Assume we decide that just calling and check-raising the turn is the best way to represent an overpair. The turn is the J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. So, more fun thought games: Is this an excellent card or a terrible card for us and our plan?

rory · #22 07-01-2005, 11:25 AM

BB could have, I think, almost any pocket pair and maybe AT and up. There is an off chance he may have a hand like KQ which he is trying to get cute with, but that chance is low.

The reason why I like capping here is because I want to scare his pocket pairs into thinking we have a bigger one. If we cap, we will probably win if a K flops in addition to spiking an A or Q and we also reserve the right to attempt to push him off his pocket pairs since so far our play is consistent with a bigger one. If we just call we completely lose the right to represent a big pair. I would cap with any pocket pair for the same reasons. Also I would cap with a only good king for the same reason. The idea is to be able to win, if he doesn't have an ace, if a K Q or A flops and to also be able to take a shot at pushing him off of a little pocket pair if none of those flop. I've been messing around with spending the extra SB preflop against good opponents to overrepresent my hand preflop to gain some fold equity postflop, especially against non-tricky straightforward opponents lately. It is something to keep in mind, I think, especially if you are playing guys playing over their head or otherwise are too fold-happy postflop for whatever reason.

rory · #23 07-01-2005, 11:27 AM

That is exactly the right question to ask yourself before you try to make a move like this. Perfect. Thank you.

joker122 · #24 07-01-2005, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is the J. So, more fun thought games: Is this an excellent card or a terrible card for us and our plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a good enough card. it's in the middle tier of cards: AKQ being the best, JT9 being second best, and anything lower being not to great in terms of helping our fold equity. why do you think it might be a terrible card?

i certainly follow through w/ a CR plan.

Ryno · #25 07-01-2005, 12:31 PM

Ugh it sucks. Like the worst possible card - high enough to be over his pair, but low enough so that he doesn't think you have it...AND it makes a flush draw.

The second he shuts down and flips the calldown switch you're dead. The purpose of the call the flop / checkraise the turn line was to re-ignite his brain, and change his read of you from "overcards" to "overpair". Now, he might not bet, and if he does and you checkraise, he can plausibly put you on AdKd. That might be enough to get to showdown given the pot size.

Here's to hoping he calls the checkraise and the river question is "how do you get another bet when the Ace falls".

JrJordan · #26 07-01-2005, 12:32 PM

Good question. It's a bit tougher because you're OOP, but I imagine he will be betting the turn as well regardless of what hits. If that's the case, I smooth call the flop raise, and fire a turn c/r. Two reasons for this.

1. The flop call, turn c/r is one of the strongest lines in our arsenal. He's shown aggression and yet we still push back.
2. Waiting til the turn gives us the possibility of a high paint card hitting. If a K,J hits the turn, he now has to give out turn c/r credit for either an overpair or that one of our overcards hit, he doesn't have to know which ones we actually have.