1/2 AK unraised preflop...

[man]

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doesn't it make sense? by controlling the pot size, we can force our opponents to make mistakes.. like drawing to a gutshot when the pot is laying 3:1.

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Ok, yes, that makes strategic sense. By raising with AK preflop, tho, you're making SB make an immediate mistake if he calls 1.5 bets with two small clubs. With 2 limpers and a poster, he's right to call .5 with two small clubs. See?

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yeah but come on, what if he doesn't make that immediate mistake! you're right, I would sleep soundly if I could count on him to call 1.5 bets with a crap hand, but the thing is I feel mich more comfortable giving him the chance to make a mistake.

I think I misapplied the concept and will raise next time, but I'm not completely convinced that this isn't a viable play.

[man]

thanks for the thoughtful post.

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That book is written for playing in games where the median player is much better than the median 1/2 player. Even if you find yourself in the midst of a loose 10/20 game, it will almost never be as loose as a typical 1/2 game...and even if it is, it will almost never be with people with such poor postflop decision-making abilities.

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sklansky is explicitly referring to people who have poor postflop skills. and why do you guys refer to what you think sklansky means? doesn't the concept make sense on its own in this game?

don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure now that I misapplied this concept, and I'm not really trying to be insolent, but I guess I'm just still looking for answers.

edit: and with all due respect, how [the F] do you get the idea that I'm ignoring this advice?? think about it...

[Derek132260]

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thanks for the thoughtful post.

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That book is written for playing in games where the median player is much better than the median 1/2 player. Even if you find yourself in the midst of a loose 10/20 game, it will almost never be as loose as a typical 1/2 game...and even if it is, it will almost never be with people with such poor postflop decision-making abilities.

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sklansky is explicitly referring to people who have poor postflop skills. and why do you guys refer to what you think sklansky means? doesn't the concept make sense on its own in this game?

don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure now that I misapplied this concept, and I'm not really trying to be insolent, but I guess I'm just still looking for answers.

edit: and with all due respect, how [the F] do you get the idea that I'm ignoring this advice?? think about it...

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I haven't gotten the idea that you're ignoring this advice. I told you the choice was yours to either accept the advice or ignore it. Plus, when I wrote that response, all I had read of yours had been disagreement (which obviously, is fine...but prompted me to frame the choice in that manner).

[bozlax]

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yeah but come on, what if he doesn't make that immediate mistake! you're right, I would sleep soundly if I could count on him to call 1.5 bets with a crap hand, but the thing is I feel mich more comfortable giving him the chance to make a mistake.

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So when DO you propose to give him an opportunity to make a mistake? Say, for instance, the flop comes mono-suited, king-high. What then? You don't think you're better off giving him a chance to make a mistake as early as possible, unless (and it's a big UNLESS) you're holding a made, near-nut hand?

[bozlax]

I think you've just got a bad case of FPS. Try playing good hands quickly, and folding bad hands for a while...that usually clears it up.

[bozlax]

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sklansky is explicitly referring to people who have poor postflop skills.

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First, "poor" is different than "atrocious". His loose players make poor postflop decisions by choice, not because they don't know any better. You're dealing with people in 1/2 online that will chase any (or no) little-bitty-tiny-microscopic piece of the flop all the way to the river and suckout your AK two-pair hand with 93o from the SB when the board comes AK3-7-3.

Make them start making wrong decisions as early as you can.

[man]

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sklansky is explicitly referring to people who have poor postflop skills.

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First, "poor" is different than "atrocious". His loose players make poor postflop decisions by choice, not because they don't know any better. You're dealing with people in 1/2 online that will chase any (or no) little-bitty-tiny-microscopic piece of the flop all the way to the river and suckout your AK two-pair hand with 93o from the SB when the board comes AK3-7-3.

Make them start making wrong decisions as early as you can.

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yeah, you're pretty much right. but just because vindication feels so good, sklansky does recommend not always raising AK in loose games with very bad postflop players. (obviously it's debatable in this situation, and I'm not really convinced either way.. but just because I trust you guys so very much I don't plan on using this play for a long time.) the advice I was referring to was from pages 157 to 164 if you have HEFAP.

and I don't mind getting sucked out on as long as my opponent made a wrong call to get there.

as a side note, I've been beaten by two preflop unraised AK's in the last half hour. silly poker gods.

[Sasnak]

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Next time you think about not raising AK PF, take out two green pieces of paper with George Washington's face on it and light them on fire.

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I'd get a good laugh out of that except for the fact I once resembled this thread.

Thank you for the brotherly knock-me-on-my-ass Entity. Even though I wasn't "exposed".

I no longer do this.

man... don't argue here. Raise AK preflop, 3 bet it and get your money in there. Read SSHE. Listen to the bros here.

[Sasnak]

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thanks for the thoughtful post.

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That book is written for playing in games where the median player is much better than the median 1/2 player. Even if you find yourself in the midst of a loose 10/20 game, it will almost never be as loose as a typical 1/2 game...and even if it is, it will almost never be with people with such poor postflop decision-making abilities.

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sklansky is explicitly referring to people who have poor postflop skills. and why do you guys refer to what you think sklansky means? doesn't the concept make sense on its own in this game?

don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure now that I misapplied this concept, and I'm not really trying to be insolent, but I guess I'm just still looking for answers.

edit: and with all due respect, how [the F] do you get the idea that I'm ignoring this advice?? think about it...

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Define "poor postflop skills" of 1/2 to 10/20 games.

Then compare the poor ball handling skills between the high school and Division 1 games and then to the NBA.

HEFAP is not designed for the 1/2 high school games, get it? Now raise AK every time at 1/2.

[MrDannimal]

I think you're underestimating the effects a raise is likely to have here. Given that you got three folds behind you, a raise probably drives out the SB, and maybe the BB too.

Personally, you're right on the line where I'd consider raising v. calling. Earlier, and it's a lock-raise. Later, and depending on # of limpers, it leans toward calling..

Also, even if you raise PF, you can control the size of the pot on the flop/turn. If your raise gets you the button, you're in a prime spot to check thr flop and watch a 10 bet pot become a 5 bet pot if you want/need to control odds.