1/2 AK unraised preflop...

man · #1 06-21-2005, 06:53 PM

I'm 3-tabling, and no pokertracker yet (I too stoopid to figure it out), so no reads. I'm experimenting with sklansky's reccomendation in HEFAP to not always raise preflop with good starting hands when you won't be able to push people out of pots. this obviously creates a tough situation postflop.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 (poster) checks, Hero calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG raises, MP1 folds, Hero [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
Final Pot: 6.50 BB

JoshuaD · #2 06-21-2005, 06:54 PM

Don't really try to apply the ideas from HPFAP to small stakes games. These players are playing so badly preflop that the EV we aquire by raising preflop is much larger than any advantage we'd get by not raising.

man · #3 06-21-2005, 07:03 PM

you're right about the book being written for playing against good players, but the concept is specifically for loose games where the players will call preflop raises most of the time anyway. the point is that if you raise preflop, you accidentally make players make proper postflop calls because the pot will be large. by limping, we can control the pot size and force our opponents to make mistakes when they call our bets anyway.

Emmitt2222 · #4 06-21-2005, 07:09 PM

For the love of all that is good and holy in the world raise pf. If you like money in any way, shape or form raise pf. You have position, you can buy the button, you can charge those losers limping in with crap 2sb, you can get dead money in the pot by knocking out the blinds or the poster. Oh did I mention you have one of the top ranked starting hands in poker? Raise pf. The book is not meant for this type of game at all, a loose game at 10/20 is not like a loose game at .5/1, trust me.

In conclusion, raise pf.

Edit: This goes in the micros

aK13 · #5 06-21-2005, 07:12 PM

AK is such a powerful hand that you can't forgo your preflop edge like this. It is difficult to make up the lost bets. Also, in many cases, you can just raise and let the preflop value of the hand win all the money for you.

man · #6 06-21-2005, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For the love of all that is good and holy in the world raise pf. If you like money in any way, shape or form raise pf. You have position, you can buy the button, you can charge those losers limping in with crap 2sb, you can get dead money in the pot by knocking out the blinds or the poster. Oh did I mention you have one of the top ranked starting hands in poker? Raise pf. The book is not meant for this type of game at all, a loose game at 10/20 is not like a loose game at .5/1, trust me.

In conclusion, raise pf.

Edit: This goes in the micros

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry about posting in the wrong forum (I thought 1/2 was covered here...?). but you didn't really address my point about making players make mistakes on later streets by being forced to call on later streets. adhering blindly to certain standards of play is cool and everything, but this concept seems pretty sound here...?

and how is a loose game at 10/20 different from a loose game at 1/2? rich people who don't study poker don't seem too far from poor people who don't study poker..

27offsooot · #7 06-21-2005, 07:24 PM

Next time you think about not raising AK PF, take out two green pieces of paper with George Washington's face on it and light them on fire. Post-flop, if the pot were bigger, i would say call the flop and raise a non-club turn assuming it doesn't get capped back to u. I think that I would just fold here as it's not worth getting involved with.

man · #8 06-21-2005, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
AK is such a powerful hand that you can't forgo your preflop edge like this. It is difficult to make up the lost bets. Also, in many cases, you can just raise and let the preflop value of the hand win all the money for you.

[/ QUOTE ]
eh, I sort of disagree with it being difficult to make up lost bets. you can make up for them because 1) you can value bet your hand when it doesn't improve [am I totally off here? I'm thinking that when you've shown aggression preflop people are more liable to fold] and 2) when you do hit, have sort of a disguised hand for the aforementioned reason.

I hate to seem like I'm just spitting out what I've read (which is partially what I'm doing I guess...), but I'm having trouble convincing myself what that it isn't sound.

man · #9 06-21-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Next time you think about not raising AK PF, take out two green pieces of paper with George Washington's face on it and light them on fire.

[/ QUOTE ]
haha.

Chuckles1248 · #10 06-21-2005, 07:35 PM

The reason there is a difference between this hand and the examples in HPFAP is the postflop skill of the opponents. In HPFAP, even in the section on loose games, Sklansky assumes the players play decently postflop, so by disguising your hand preflop, you are able to better outplay them postflop. In games like online 1/2, the people play so atrociously bad postflop that the edge you lose by not raising preflop is much bigger than the edge you gain through deception.

The loose 1/2 games are different from loose 10/20 games because the players on average play better in 10/20, even if they are still playing too many hands.