Explain This (Or simply Dismiss And Ignore It)

[MMMMMM]

Britney, you wouldn't need such an elaborate pretext and staged event to marshall widespread support for an invasion of the Middle East.

All that would be necessary would be convince the American public that gasoline was going to $10/gal (or maybe $5 or $6) due to dwindling supplies, and the majority of Americans would be gung-ho to go and take over a country with nice big oilfields.

Saudi Arabia would be the best choice because they have the best oilfields, are relatively undefended, are two-faced towards the U.S. (being "chummy" on the surface but really spending billions to spread virulently anti-American Wahhabist propaganda around the world), and because we first helped them get the oil out of the ground in the first place and we had rights to it by the deal that was struck and then they went and claimed entire ownership of all that oil (dealbreaking).

Convincing the American public of the above would not be that hard because it is largely true. The hardest part would be convincing people that oil prices were going to go so high as to really hurt them in the pocket. Gasoline at $5+ could send us into a deep recession or even a Depression.

Now add the fact that the Saudis bear large responsibility for 9/11 (the hijackers were mostly Saudi, but more importantly, because the Saudi government has done such a fantastic job of spreading Wahhabist extremism and hatred of the West). So the Saudis more or less OWE the U.S. compensation for about 2/3 or the total damages from 9/11--including not only immediate damages but consequent economic damages as well.

So put it all together and I think this is right down your pike and you might care to investigate this line of thinking further.

I for one think we should quite possibly do the following: present the Saudis with a bill for 200 billion dollars payable immediately and a stern warning that if they don't pay it and stop spreading this horrid extremism in the mosques which creates fanatics and suicidal terrorists, Saudi Arabia will become the 51st state of the union. And if they call our bluff, DO IT! It would be a CAKEWALK compared to Iraq. The cheap gas would also benefit our economy humongously. And they can take that warped fanatical ideology and throw it in the trashcan, because they will have to adhere to the U.S. Constitution then!

No more religious discrimination! Women actually allowed to drive! No more official beheadings every weekend in Execution Square in Riyadh! No more religious police roaming the streets ordering people to report for prayer at the nearest mosque! No more religious police beating women with sticks for being out in public unveiled, or for showing some calf (never mind some thigh). Equal rights for everyone!

You guys blew it: you had it made in fat city with your oil and palaces, but you tried to spread too much medievalism, and that crap led to the attacks on the U.S.! See ya later, guys: time to pull your heads out and step in to to the 21st century!

Well whatcha think, Britney? That could fly and would fly if the price of oil gets too high, don'tcha think?

[Cumulonimbus]

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Where ya been man? The guys over at the other 9/11 forum have been teamin up against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is this other forum you speak of?

Bob

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Errr I meant thread. Its the WTC one.

[Cumulonimbus]

[ QUOTE ]
Britney, you wouldn't need such an elaborate pretext and staged event to marshall widespread support for an invasion of the Middle East.

All that would be necessary would be convince the American public that gasoline was going to $10/gal (or maybe $5 or $6) due to dwindling supplies, and the majority of Americans would be gung-ho to go and take over a country with nice big oilfields.

Saudi Arabia would be the best choice because they have the best oilfields, are relatively undefended, are two-faced towards the U.S. (being "chummy" on the surface but really spending billions to spread virulently anti-American Wahhabist propaganda around the world), and because we first helped them get the oil out of the ground in the first place and we had rights to it by the deal that was struck and then they went and claimed entire ownership of all that oil (dealbreaking).

Convincing the American public of the above would not be that hard because it is largely true. The hardest part would be convincing people that oil prices were going to go so high as to really hurt them in the pocket. Gasoline at $5+ could send us into a deep recession or even a Depression.

Now add the fact that the Saudis bear large responsibility for 9/11 (the hijackers were mostly Saudi, but more importantly, because the Saudi government has done such a fantastic job of spreading Wahhabist extremism and hatred of the West). So the Saudis more or less OWE the U.S. compensation for about 2/3 or the total damages from 9/11--including not only immediate damages but consequent economic damages as well.

So put it all together and I think this is right down your pike and you might care to investigate this line of thinking further.

I for one think we should quite possibly do the following: present the Saudis with a bill for 200 billion dollars payable immediately and a stern warning that if they don't pay it and stop spreading this horrid extremism in the mosques which creates fanatics and suicidal terrorists, Saudi Arabia will become the 51st state of the union. And if they call our bluff, DO IT! It would be a CAKEWALK compared to Iraq. The cheap gas would also benefit our economy humongously. And they can take that warped fanatical ideology and throw it in the trashcan, because they will have to adhere to the U.S. Constitution then!

No more religious discrimination! Women actually allowed to drive! No more official beheadings every weekend in Execution Square in Riyadh! No more religious police roaming the streets ordering people to report for prayer at the nearest mosque! No more religious police beating women with sticks for being out in public unveiled, or for showing some calf (never mind some thigh). Equal rights for everyone!

You guys blew it: you had it made in fat city with your oil and palaces, but you tried to spread too much medievalism, and that crap led to the attacks on the U.S.! See ya later, guys: time to pull your heads out and step in to to the 21st century!

Well whatcha think, Britney? That could fly and would fly if the price of oil gets too high, don'tcha think?

[/ QUOTE ]

True, the government could convince the public that we really needed oil. But wow - think of the consequences. What soldier would want to fight and die for oil? "Freedom" is such a more noble thing to fight for. And I really don't think that the majority of the US, no matter how poor, would agree to send their kids, spouses and parents into battle for oil. I mean, you gotta be a pretty hardcore person to do that.

Plus, what's the rest of the world gonna think if the US goes to war just for oil? We would probably lose UN support and maybe even be charged for war crimes (murdering and stealing.) Plus, with Bush appealing to all that is Christian in America - what would his religious supporters think?

In other words, reedom is such a better reason to go to war than oil.

[MMMMMM]

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Without oil, all modern economies collapse, and with that comes an immmense number of deaths.

[/ QUOTE ]

So war for oil is actually a damn good reason, if it means the difference in a great many lives saved or lost and the difference between economic prosperity and depression.

[oreogod]

If anyone thinks we went to war for freedom, that'd be funny, because its a joke.

There were a couple factors in the Iraq war. It had to do with oil, but not in the way ppl expect. It actually has to do with the dollar vs. the euro (with Nixon taking the dollar off the gold standard, what is the dollar now based off of? Oil.) -- Iraq was the first and only country that started buying oil with the Euro. A big no no, for the US economy...911 provides the perfect seqway to a war. Read the following articles. Can u imagine if OPEC switched over to the Euro, how devastating it would be to the US economy?

Invasion of Iraq: Dollar vs. Euro

Oil, Currency and the War on Iraq


Besides US economy there were other reasons.
1.Foothold in the Middle East.
2.Saddam...payback time
3.Minor threats of terrorism coming out of Iraq (yes, minor)

I cant believe ppl bought the whole issue of freedom and WMDs.

[oreogod]

As far as oil, we'll always need oil...but protecting the US economy and having a foothold were the major issues. Not aquiring oil, and while being a side issue, its definitly a good side issue. Oil is massivly important...and its only going to keep getting that way.

I suggest anyone read the Long Emergency. Link here:

Long Emergency (Amazon)

It deals with the Oil Production Peak, which we are in, and what is going to happen as the resources start to dwindle out (about 20 years from now). The world is going to be an intresting place 20 years from now.

Rolling Stones website had an experct of this book. Its good stuff. Very intresting. Talks about how different life will be if new sources of energy are not found fast. The only problem with it, being later in the book you can definitly tell hes against globalism and big buisness...its still quite thought provoking and well researched.

[Cumulonimbus]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone thinks we went to war for freedom, that'd be funny, because its a joke.

There were a couple factors in the Iraq war. It had to do with oil, but not in the way ppl expect. It actually has to do with the dollar vs. the euro (with Nixon taking the dollar off the gold standard, what is the dollar now based off of? Oil.) -- Iraq was the first and only country that started buying oil with the Euro. A big no no, for the US economy...911 provides the perfect seqway to a war. Read the following articles. Can u imagine if OPEC switched over to the Euro, how devastating it would be to the US economy?

Invasion of Iraq: Dollar vs. Euro

Oil, Currency and the War on Iraq


Besides US economy there were other reasons.
1.Foothold in the Middle East.
2.Saddam...payback time
3.Minor threats of terrorism coming out of Iraq (yes, minor)

I cant believe ppl bought the whole issue of freedom and WMDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. But at the time after 9/11, it was freedom that pushed everybody to go to war. Everybody's freedom was threatened by 9/11, so we had to go into Iraq and stop the bully. But hey, at least people are beginning to see that we're not fighting for freedom or WMDs.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone thinks we went to war for freedom, that'd be funny, because its a joke.

There were a couple factors in the Iraq war. It had to do with oil, but not in the way ppl expect. It actually has to do with the dollar vs. the euro (with Nixon taking the dollar off the gold standard, what is the dollar now based off of? Oil.) -- Iraq was the first and only country that started buying oil with the Euro. A big no no, for the US economy...911 provides the perfect seqway to a war. Read the following articles. Can u imagine if OPEC switched over to the Euro, how devastating it would be to the US economy?

Invasion of Iraq: Dollar vs. Euro

Oil, Currency and the War on Iraq


Besides US economy there were other reasons.
1.Foothold in the Middle East.
2.Saddam...payback time
3.Minor threats of terrorism coming out of Iraq (yes, minor)

I cant believe ppl bought the whole issue of freedom and WMDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. But at the time after 9/11, it was freedom that pushed everybody to go to war. Everybody's freedom was threatened by 9/11, so we had to go into Iraq and stop the bully. But hey, at least people are beginning to see that we're not fighting for freedom or WMDs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yeah, you got to give ppl what they want. Feeding what they want to hear. Ppl want revenge, you have carte blanche to go to war, blame it on somebody, anybody and go fight.

True ppl are starting to see through the crap now, but the day of 9/11, I was in Brooklyn...my ex-girlfriend and I went downstairs to this pizzaria to watch the news (our cable was out that day)...we see whats going on, and I tell her..."looks like Bush is going to get his war with Iraq."

Did I know for sure? No, but I thought it was a hell of a possibility. Who could not see the Bush vs. Saddam match up? If it wasnt war, they'd come to a head at some point.

Im amazed he got re-elected. Actually Im not...did u see a voting results map...where it maps out how the country votes? Almost every metropolitan area (just about every city) voted for Kerry...yet Middle america, which has an edge in pure #s, almost all voted for Bush. Its an intresting thing to think about.

I dont want to say being subserviant to rednecks and evangelicals sucks, but I will.

[Cumulonimbus]

Yeah if you conquer middle America, you win the polls... in other words, if you can appeal to a whole bunch of God-fearing country-lovin' buck-tooth conservatives, you got it made. (I can say "God-fearing country-lovin' buck-tooth conservatives" because that basically describes my family.)

On a side note, I'm sure you've seen all the polls that show results that are very anti-Bush. It's weird how the majority of the country can go from voting for Bush in 2004 to being against his policies in mid/late 2005. Although I have seen some evidence of voting fraud on Bush's part, I'm not completely sure of it. But it's starting to make sense as it seems the majority of the country is turned against him.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to say being subserviant to rednecks and evangelicals sucks, but I will.



[/ QUOTE ]

Elitist, rascist, classist, out of touch with the average man, condescending, and certainly in the minority......

Its not just for Republicans anymore. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]