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#12
05-21-2005, 11:17 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
BTW, to settle the fish debate/pain debate, the answer is we simply don't know.
1) Fish have pain receptors 2)They lack the parts of the brain that processes pain in humans. 3) The neurology of fish is completely different than humans, so #2 may not even matter. In the end the scientific community is split and we really don't know. To make a claim one way or another is asinine IMO. 
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#13
05-21-2005, 11:30 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, to settle the fish debate/pain debate, the answer is we simply don't know. 1) Fish have pain receptors 2)They lack the parts of the brain that processes pain in humans. 3) The neurology of fish is completely different than humans, so #2 may not even matter. In the end the scientific community is split and we really don't know. To make a claim one way or another is asinine IMO. [/ QUOTE ] i agree...there is research on both sides of it that support opposing views and from reading it i understand the differences in thier pain receptors from ours thier were called noi...somethings cant remember right now. Either way...i fish alot and i was brought up on that train of thought...so unless there was no scientific riff and it all pointed the other way not much is gonna change this thought in my mind. It helps me to take better care of the fish i come in contact with and encourages me to treat them with the upmost care. Many of these studies have been preformed on trout, which may be more sensitive to "pain" than other types...and many fish (i read) have differing #s of these recepotors, so we may never know...but i still have my opinion on the issue.... kinda like i believe animals have souls [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#14
05-21-2005, 11:35 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
i posted in another thread a few minutes ago about how i dont think its appropriate for people to tell other people what the y should or should not believe in. i guess if you want to torture animals i might lose some sleep over it, but it is not my place to hit you over the head with a 2x4 and tell you to stop. i am not a vegetarian, i eat meat regularly. i eat chicken all the time. animals feel pain and we need to eat animals. its the way of life. im not saying you should never hurt an animal, but unnecessary torture is ridiculous. to me, the process of making veal is ludacris and plain wrong, but if you want to eat veal then go ahead. hey ive eaten in the past myself and will in the future now and then. [/ QUOTE ] Just to be clear, I was not trying to tell you what to do and what not to do. You are free to have your opinion and you are free to do as you choose, I was just saying that those activities may not be best suited for you given your predisposition on the aspects involved in those activities. But again, it's your choice one way or the other...that was soley my opinion. [ QUOTE ] to me, the process of making veal is ludacris and plain wrong, but if you want to eat veal then go ahead. hey ive eaten in the past myself and will in the future now and then. [/ QUOTE ] You do see the hypocrisy in this, right? Reading that it makes absolutely no sense, and makes me believe you have no reason to feel the way you do other than emotion which is purely subjective to your perspective at a given moment. I think that is ridiculous. How can you say, yeah that's OK on Monday but OMG THAT IS SOOOOOO WRONG on Tuesday? Monday: Mmmmm Veal, Pass the Salt? Tuesday: OMFG Veal Eater, So Wrong! Dry humor, you get the point.
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#15
05-21-2005, 11:46 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
again, i never said that i feel its my responsibility to tell people not to eat veal. if you want to eat it then eat it.
however, i do feel that its morally wrong. despite this, i will eat it anyway. just because its wrong doesn't mean i won't do it. i hardly see how that makes me a hypocrite. just as i feel that its wrong to make a living off the losses of others, i do it anyway. in order to be a hypocrite you have to tell people how they should be doing something while doing the opposite for youself. i never told anyone what they should do. i am merely expressing my beliefs despite not adhering to them. if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, then im a hypocrite. at least im a realist.
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#16
05-21-2005, 11:49 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Sounds conclusive to me... [/ QUOTE ] More like a typical reporter screwing up what the scientific consensus really is. [ QUOTE ] Or when a bear grabs a baby out of a stroller (see my response in the hunting thread), the other bears are saying, "dude, you really shouldn't do that". You "caring" is a human emotion, and ultimately I would say it just means that fishing/hunting are not for you. [/ QUOTE ] Humans are not the only animal that are capable of caring about the welfare of other animals. Dogs, dolphins, cats, whales, and even bears all have a long and well documented history of caring for not only humans but lesser forms of animal life as well. Please keep in mind not all of these animals, just like not all humans, behave this way. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting point wacki, but do you not consider these to all be forms of personification rather than genuine animalistic traits. Do you think the scenario where a predator cares for the prey when another predator (of the same species as the other predator) kills it is possible?
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#17
05-21-2005, 11:50 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
in order to be a hypocrite you have to tell people how they should be doing something while doing the opposite for youself. i never told anyone what they should do. i am merely expressing my beliefs despite not adhering to them. if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, then im a hypocrite. at least im a realist. [/ QUOTE ] no...u dont have to tell others...u just have to HOLD the belief yet do smething different...look up the definition
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#18
05-21-2005, 11:52 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
again, i never said that i feel its my responsibility to tell people not to eat veal. if you want to eat it then eat it. however, i do feel that its morally wrong. despite this, i will eat it anyway. just because its wrong doesn't mean i won't do it. i hardly see how that makes me a hypocrite. just as i feel that its wrong to make a living off the losses of others, i do it anyway. in order to be a hypocrite you have to tell people how they should be doing something while doing the opposite for youself. i never told anyone what they should do. i am merely expressing my beliefs despite not adhering to them. if that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, then im a hypocrite. at least im a realist. [/ QUOTE ] I'm a realist too! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I just wanted to say this was awesome: [ QUOTE ] however, i do feel that its morally wrong. despite this, i will eat it anyway. just because its wrong doesn't mean i won't do it. [/ QUOTE ]
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#20
05-21-2005, 11:55 PM
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Re: Do Fish Feel Pain? Who Cares?
[ QUOTE ]
ok i guess that im a hypocrite then. i think the true feeling that i possess is a bit of guilt. [/ QUOTE ] You only feel guilt when you feel you are doing something wrong. I find it humorous that you continue to do things that you feel are wrong, realize they make you feel guilty, and then do them again. That simply confuses the hell out of me.
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