Head Case/Terrible Bankroll Management

[MediaPA]

Ok, here's the story. I started playing holdem in May. 3 days in New Orleans and I was kind of hooked (-80,+100,+130 at the 3/6 tables). I ventured into the online game. promptly proceeded to lose a fair amount of money playing 2/4. Which I never properly bankrolled myself for. Heck I never even knew what bankroll management was. Anyway, long story short, I drop 1200 online. I managed to get it back to even through more poor bankroll decisions. Kept trying to go for the quick hits 15/30 or whereever else. Dropped down about 3K then. Get back to even. Drop down nearly 10K. Back to even.

So in this I've been really lucky because honestly I didn't know what I was getting into, about the game, or about myself and gambling. I have major tilt/bankroll management issues, which will kill any poker player and especially one as naive as myself. To illustrate the point, I played 200/400 HU limit with the 6K that I had built up from 600 after being down 9k. Enough said.

Now, I'm so adverse to losing because I've seen the path that I can go down and it's a scary one. I built back up playing mainly 2/4 NL but right now, losing a buy in is extremely significant to me. When I was down, all I thought about was working my way back to even and making moves/plays to get there if I saw any edge. Now that I'm even again, I look for ways to protect myself from drawing hands too much or fold when I should be calling to save the money because my hand isn't that solid. I've become too tight. I guess the only real solution is to just move down to micros and 'have fun' with the game. If I build up, great. $2 a day is $600 in a year which builds up over time (I'm only 25)

Has anyone else gone through this, or have advice. Also yes, I know I'm an idiot and I've counted my lucky stars many, many times.

[Tron]

Man, I think you need to take a significant break from poker IMMEDIATELY. PokerRoom (where I play) has an option where you can choose to be locked out of the site for 6 months if you think you have a gambling problem. That may be the right choice for you. No matter what, I think you need to take at least a month off from poker.

During that time, do everything you can to improve your game. Read SSH, read TOP, then read SSH again. Read the Small Stakes forums every day. Remember, no bankroll is big enough for a losing player... So make sure you're a winner.

[ACW]

I agree that you should stop playing at least for a while and quite possibly for ever.

If you do decide to continue playing, pick an amount of money you're prepared to lose without worrying about it. Put it aside as your bankroll. For the next year follow the following rule rigidly: Your buy-in for each session is 2% of your current bankroll. Find a game appropriate to that buy-in (you can round the figure if you like, as long as you don't use this as an excuse to buy in bigger, e.g. buying in for $50 instead of $46.58 is OK - buying in for $100 instead of $46.58 is not).

If you're a losing player, this money will last you about 100 buy-ins or so (obviously the precise number depends on how bad you are!), but you will lose it. Best to give up at that point, or play microlimits for fun with money you expect to lose. If you are a winning player, your bankroll will slowly rise and you can review the 2% limit after a year (it may turn out to be too conservative, some would advocate 5%, but in your case I think small is the best starting policy).

One more thing...I still think giving up for good is probably best, but be aware of your problem because it might just resurface in other areas of your life if you stop playing poker.

[Al Schoonmaker]

I must agree with the only two replies that have been made so far. You should take a break IMMEDIATELY, and you should very seriously consider giving up poker.

Read your own self-description. You describe yourself as an "idiot," "a head case." Then you tell us some of the reasons for feeling this way.

Poker seems to be a threat, not just to your bankroll, but to your most basic feelings about yourself.

That's too great a risk to take.

Regards,

Al

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, here's the story. I started playing holdem in May. 3 days in New Orleans and I was kind of hooked (-80,+100,+130 at the 3/6 tables). I ventured into the online game. promptly proceeded to lose a fair amount of money playing 2/4. Which I never properly bankrolled myself for. Heck I never even knew what bankroll management was. Anyway, long story short, I drop 1200 online. I managed to get it back to even through more poor bankroll decisions. Kept trying to go for the quick hits 15/30 or whereever else. Dropped down about 3K then. Get back to even. Drop down nearly 10K. Back to even.

So in this I've been really lucky because honestly I didn't know what I was getting into, about the game, or about myself and gambling. I have major tilt/bankroll management issues, which will kill any poker player and especially one as naive as myself. To illustrate the point, I played 200/400 HU limit with the 6K that I had built up from 600 after being down 9k. Enough said.

Now, I'm so adverse to losing because I've seen the path that I can go down and it's a scary one. I built back up playing mainly 2/4 NL but right now, losing a buy in is extremely significant to me. When I was down, all I thought about was working my way back to even and making moves/plays to get there if I saw any edge. Now that I'm even again, I look for ways to protect myself from drawing hands too much or fold when I should be calling to save the money because my hand isn't that solid. I've become too tight. I guess the only real solution is to just move down to micros and 'have fun' with the game. If I build up, great. $2 a day is $600 in a year which builds up over time (I'm only 25)

Has anyone else gone through this, or have advice. Also yes, I know I'm an idiot and I've counted my lucky stars many, many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see anything resembling the following statements:

I'm currently reading Books A, B, and C.
I'm currently spending x hours a week studying.
I'm currently reading and posting hands in the MicroLimit/SmallLimit/Small PL-NL forums.
I'm planning on buying Pokertracker.
My plan is to play $y limit/NL for z hands until I'm a proven winner, then move up to the next limit.

All of these will show you're trying to improve. As it is, you don't show us any concrete plans or realistic goals. If you don't care about the money, that's fine, because you're going to lose it all. If you want to improve and actually consistently win money, you need all of the above.

[FredJones888]

Defininitely time for an extended break. I'm doing the same myself. I have given up ALL gambling, even lotto for 3 months and I am giving up all internet gambling permanently.

I believe internet gambling is more dangerous than live gambling.
--its faster than live play so if you are net losing player you will lose faster.
--its just too easy to play all the time since its in your home.
-internet games are tougher than live games at the same stakes.

This may not be a popular posting on a gambling web site, but it needs to be said.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Your comments were quite appropriate for our site. I would agree with most of your statements. However, MANY people have stated that internet games are considerably easier than live ones.

First, the rake is often lower, and there are no tokes. That difference adds up to a lot of money.

Second, many people believe that internet players are weaker.

Third, it is easier to change games if you find yourself in a tough one.

Personally, I do much better in live games, but I believe that the difference is caused by my psychological approach to the game. I'm more comfortable and effective face to face than I am with a computer.

Regards,

Al

[BusterStacks]

That sounds pretty serious. Do you think you have a gambling problem? If it's more than a game, you should stop playing.

Edit: I think live gambling sucks because I'm playing something higher than my normal limit and if I lose some hands I don't stick around for my variance to catch back up.

[FredJones888]

As far as having a gambling problem, I considered that possibility for the first time in my life 6 weeks ago. I have never been a big gambler and always thought gambling was stupid until I started playing poker.

The live play in my area is low limit and small buyin tournements only. Also playing live requires me to drive about half an hour and then wait up to an hour to get a table. Basically I'm just not going to do that all the time. If I had never played on the internet I woldn't have lost enough to consider it a problem.

[QuadsOverQuads]

Take a break. Now.

Whether you have a "gambling problem" or not, your play clearly does not reflect sound "business decision"-type reasoning. Think of it this way: if you were running a business, would you handle your risk and your money the way you describe here? Hell no. What you're describing here is playing for the entertainment and for the rush, not playing for the win.

You HAVE to manage your risk in proportion to your bankroll, or else the variance puts everything at risk.

Adjust accordingly.

Also, you MUST stick to limits that are appropriate for your skill, or the competition will chew you up and spit you out.

Adjust accordingly.

Count yourself lucky if you've managed to recoup your worst losses up to this point. Some of us who been in your place weren't so lucky. But one way or another, you ultimately WILL have to either (1) quit the game or (2) develop a long-term winning approach to the game. This is not optional, this is reality, and your bank account will ultimately force this decision on you whether you like it or not. Better to face it now, when the damage ISN'T forcing you to, than to put it off until the damage finally IS.

Seriously, take a break and hit the books, then, when you're comfortable, ease your way back in slowly, at low limits, until you've demonstrated *in actual numbers* that you are now a winning player. Then -- and ONLY then -- should you consider moving up.

Now, if you can't (or won't) do that, then you're clearly playing for something other than the money, and THAT should be setting off alarm bells all over. It's one thing to gamble for small change or weekly entertainment money, but when you're dealing in swings of ten grand, that's something entirely different. Either get it under control NOW, or your heading for a *monster* financial fall. Either way, the ride's going to end. Make it end in a way that works for you, not against you.


q/q