$2/$4 Stud High - Take a stand?

[greenage]

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.63 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero:- J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___raises
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls

<font color="blue">I’m not sure if Seat 4 is a shark or a lucky LAG. He was completing almost every bring-in and had more than doubled his buy-in before leaving the table. His completion with an Ace door didn’t mean much to me because of this.

The limp/re-raise was (I think) an attempt to isolate him but I guess I momentarily forgot that Seat 8 was a huge fish in the process of losing his shirt.

I was determined to take a stand on this hand and think I should have just completed right off the bat. Sound like suicide? </font>

4th Street - (7.13 SB)

Seat 4: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero:- J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___double bets
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (5.56 BB)

Hero:- J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (7.56 BB)

Hero:- J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (9.56 BB)

Hero:- J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (11.56 BB)

[Roland]

You should have definitely …

[ QUOTE ]
just completed right off the bat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MRBAA]

Depending on the make up of the game, it can be correct to complete with a wide range of hands at times. (Roland saw me do it with crap yesterday). In this structure, it's not much more to complete than to limp, so if you get any folding equity or ability to control betting, the raise can be worthwhile. The struture at 3-6 makes raises better for k/o value, but less good with marginal hands. But anyone who is completing almost every hand is going to get eaten alive eventually. That said, I'd raise a three flush, (KQ)A, (22)A and (xA)A in this situation a fair portion of the time. The calling station/fish adds lots of value to this strategy. I don't like "taking a stand" regardless of what happens -- I prefer to think of it as given the other guys propensity to raise a lot, you felt your jacks had a good chance to be best. Against an over aggro sort, I don't hate the limp, but I'd like to have an overcard to his door to do it -- for instance (JA)J vs. (xx)K.

[Jeffage]

Third is an easy completion.

Jeff

[greenage]

[ QUOTE ]
In this structure, it's not much more to complete than to limp, so if you get any folding equity or ability to control betting, the raise can be worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point, I don’t think about structure considerations nearly enough.


[ QUOTE ]
I don't like "taking a stand" regardless of what happens -- I prefer to think of it as given the other guys propensity to raise a lot, you felt your jacks had a good chance to be best. Against an over aggro sort, I don't hate the limp, but I'd like to have an overcard to his door to do it -- for instance (JA)J vs. (xx)K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking back at some of my hands, I realized that I was tilting a bit, even though it didn’t feel like it at the time. Seat 4 was running over the table and it was pretty frustrating. I probably should have requested the last N hands and sat out a couple of minutes to look at his play, as this site allows you to shuffle at showdown.

[greenage]

Seat 8 showed: [ 4h Ad Th Qh As 9c Tc ] (two pair, aces and tens)

[Hauser_III]

[ QUOTE ]
Seat 8 showed: [ 4h Ad Th Qh As 9c Tc ] (two pair, aces and tens)

[/ QUOTE ]

I would almost guarantee that Seat 8 had "shuffle show cards" checked, and that he started with Tc Ad/Th. Even so, I don't think his call of your double bet on 4th was at all correct, given your actions on 3rd. I'm too tired to calculate pot odds, etc., but you're screaming trip J's on 4th, and I would have been inclined to believe you and fold quietly if I had been seat 8.

[greenage]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seat 8 showed: [ 4h Ad Th Qh As 9c Tc ] (two pair, aces and tens)

[/ QUOTE ]

I would almost guarantee that Seat 8 had "shuffle show cards" checked, and that he started with Tc Ad/Th. Even so, I don't think his call of your double bet on 4th was at all correct, given your actions on 3rd. I'm too tired to calculate pot odds, etc., but you're screaming trip J's on 4th, and I would have been inclined to believe you and fold quietly if I had been seat 8.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know of any sites that email hands with your opponents cards shuffled? Just asking because I don’t know of any.

This guy was a huge fish, even worse than me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[patrick dicaprio]

the fact that seat 8 is a fish means you want him to call not fold. if you hit a bighand you will keep him along so why get him out? you may have to improve anyway. i have no problem with just calling the bring in here.

i wrote the above before i saw your fourth street card!! proof of what i was saying [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Pat

I probably would've completely it out right trying to isolate against the Ace. Even fish fold to a completed bet on 3rd sometimes. But in this case it sort of acted in reverse with the Ace folding. Regardless, I feel it's worth the shot to take it. The rest of the hand in normal, I assume you took it down.