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Old 08-27-2005, 11:55 PM
Al_Capone_Junior Al_Capone_Junior is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,026
Default Re: Not allowed to read the rules?

Having a pamphlet readily available, a relatively detailed one, that explains the basic rules, ettiquette and procedures, is a fantastic idea.

Allowing the players to have access to a rule book which is typically many pages long (sometimes 30 or more, depending on the room) would be disastrous.

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Old 08-28-2005, 12:08 PM
Luv2DriveTT Luv2DriveTT is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3
Default Re: Not allowed to read the rules?

SOME rules posted on the wall is not the same as a more detailed copy of the rules that is available to everyone.

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I was impressed when I visited the Commerce, they provide a rather thick rule pamphlet at the Concierge desk. I've never seen the rules detailed like this before within a room.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:42 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,179
Default A few random comments.....

A few random comments:

- Note that poker rules are modified on occasion and noted in a floormen's daily log (such modifications are signed off by a shift manager or higher up). It's not possible to constantly re-publish the rule book so it usually isn't completely up to date.

- I used to be strongly in favor of having rulebooks freely available. However Randy Refeld changed my mind somewhat (along with similar arguments made on this board in past years).

- Poker rules could be better written. It's possible to make available (perhaps at nominal cost) the complete set of rules and keep a bulletin board of key changes. I'm not sure it's a good idea though, given that nits will constantly be creating rule argument (negated somewhat if the rules are good and well written).

- Poker rulebooks often contain information that is essentially policy. Examples are policies regarding "must move" and policies regarding arguments over who gets a newly empty seat . Policies often change, don't impact the play of the hand, and should not be in a rulebook (they can be posted or written elsewhere).

- I do think that key rules should be posted on a wall chart or in one page (or notecard sized) handouts. This is especially applicable to newly popular games such as the smaller fixed buy-in NL holdem games. Two examples of rules that could or should be posted are "A bet or raise is not complete until it is released into the pot - wait for others to complete their action before acting on your hand" and "Players taking a table change must start with the normal buy-in". The table change buy-in rule seems obvious, but they are different all over LA and I've seen dealers advise/rule incorrectly almost every time I play.

- Some floormen don't understand key rules. Example: A few years ago I saw a top section floor (with about 30 years experience) rule incorrectly on whether or not a raise re-opened the betting in a 40/80 game. This rule isn't open to interpretation (some are); unfortunately I'm fairly sure he isn't the only floor that would fail to rule correctly in the more complicated situations regarding this important rule.

As an aside, I recently spoke with a shift manager in a large LA club. The club had adopted a policy/rule applicable to the smaller fixed buy in NL games. It is (more or less) "if a player facing a bet or raise exposes his hand face up his hand is declared dead". I think the rule has merit (since many newbies do think that an exposed hand is dead and give off tells to the player who exposed his cards). The main point I made (the shift manager was curious regarding my opinion) was that such a rule should be clearly posted, especially since other local clubs don't use it and it impacts the play of the hand and showdown. Note that this same club does not apply this rule to the PL game (populated by mostly experienced players).

~ Rick
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:15 PM
BigBaitsim (milo) BigBaitsim (milo) is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 373
Default Re: Not allowed to read the rules?

What you say makes sense.

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It doesn't make a bit of sense.

We are going to play a game, but the rules are secret??? Because I'm too freakin' stupid to understand them??? And I suppose if you break a rule you get put on double-secret probation? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Does it say in the rules that I can't see the rules?? I want to see that in the rules. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

My local cardroom is Canterbury Park. I believe the rules are available in the cardroom, although I have never asked. The rules are published on their web site. They also have a detailed glossary in case of any confusion as to the meaning of basic English. Failure to provide the rules is unfair and insulting to players. It's also a cop-out and cover-up for lazy, incompetent, insecure floormen. If a floorman knows his job, he should have no problem discussing the rules with a player who has read the rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

The rules are posted in the corner by table 25. You prolly have never seen them because Harold is in the way.
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