AJJ4 hand. To aggressive?

flexus · #1 07-28-2005, 10:59 AM

I suspect this hand is severly misplayed on every postflop street..

I was not comfortable at all reraising the flop. Should I be?

The turn call was prolly bad since I am pretty sure someone has trip kings. And drawing to a third nut low cant be such a good idea, right?

any comments and pieces of advice are very welcome

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Omaha/8 (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has As 4s Js Jh (Low: 6, 5, 4, 3, A | High: three of a kind, jacks).
Button has Kc Ac 8s Kh (Low: 8, 6, 5, 3, A | High: three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB. Button wins 7 BB.

Alchemist · #2 07-28-2005, 11:31 AM

I wouldn't 3-bet it on the flop. It's a rainbow flop with two big cards so his reraises announce that he has KK to me. And you're way behind if he does.

Once the turn gives a non-counterfeiting small card I'm going to the river for 1 bet and hope for the best.

djr · #3 07-28-2005, 07:35 PM

his flop 3bet says trip kings or AQT. Given his position either is likely, but I'd say kings is more likely since he capped it. You shouldn't have 3 bet, but since you get to close the action on each betting round I would call it down and hope to pick up the low.

BlueBear · #4 07-29-2005, 06:43 AM

I'm probably too aggressive but I prefer betting out the turn and only slowing down after being raised on the turn. Unless the opponents are absolute rocks, some aggressively players are capable in incorrectly capping the flop with top two pair or 66.

chaos · #5 07-29-2005, 08:29 AM

Personally I don't think I would three bet the flop unless I previously noted that button was a loose-aggressive player. Since the third player called two bets cold he is not going to fold if it is raised or capped.

I think you played the other streets fine. You are not going to loose the third player if he has A2 after you pick up the low draw.

Some players might consider betting out on the turn, hoping the button will raise and the third player will fold if he has A3 or A4. I don't think this is a good play. There are two many things you need to be just right for this play to work:
<ul type="square">[*]the button has to raise [*]the third player has to have A3 or A4[*]the third player would have called one bet but not two [*]you need to make your low on the river[*]the button needs to not have a better low[/list]When you multiply the probability of all these events happening together, it is pretty small. You will do better in the long run just putting in one bet on the turn.

Calling on the river seems like a non-decision. You will win either the high with your trip Jacks or the low with your second nut low the vast majority of the time. The button would need A2KK specifically for him to be ahead both ways (baring him raising the flop with a very week hand and backdooring a straight - a hand like A24K).

JoshuaMayes · #6 07-29-2005, 02:28 PM

I like how you played this hand. I would never fold second set in limit, and I absolutely would have three-bet that flop. After the button caps, I would slow down, but I certainly would not fold the turn. With only three players left there is a decent chance that your A4 is good for low because all the A2s, A3s, and 23s should have folded during the flop frenzy. Your hand is much too strong to fold on the river, but I would not raise.

Jim Morgan · #7 08-02-2005, 05:21 PM

I think a re-raise on the flop is mandatory unless your opponent is a total rock who never raises unless he has top set. He might have KQJT or even AAQ2 with a backdoor flush or 2. He might have bottom set! He has the button and might just want to inhibit you from betting the turn. I am not going to assume KK just because I get raised once.

The cap of the flop round probably rules out bottom set, but it sure as hell shouldn't rule out AQT2. Look at your play. You checked the turn. If he had AQT2, he raised with a great draw and now doesn't have to pay for another chance to draw when his equity is much lower. And yet I think that you were correct to check the turn, since many players will only cap here with top set.

If I were the button, I would cap with AQT or KK or something like QJJT. Now you will check to me with anything less than KK and I will bet or check depending upon how my hand likes the turn. Raising for a free card can be done after a re-raise too. In fact, it is less risky when it caps the betting. If your opponent has KK, he cannot re-raise. And this concept also tells us that the cap bet should not necessarily need as strong a hand as one might think.

Suppone in holdem you face a bet and 2 calls and you have Ah5h with a board of QsTh4h. Suppose you raise and the better re-raises and one caller stays in. I think capping is correct. Many players will put you on a draw when you raise, but will think the 2nd raise is a real hand. You lose little if any equity by making this raise and there is no danger of losing the 3rd man to a re-raise. One thing is for sure, if you simply call the re-raise, you WILL be facing a turn bet unless a heart falls. Best to get in more money while your equity is good if it gives any reasonable chance of making your opponents slow down. This sort of strategy also allows you to play a set very fast on the flp with no fear of losing opponents. KQ will not lay down if he knows you might have a flush draw and will be drawing more or less dead when u have the set. Playing strong draws fast helps you get paid on your big hands.

Returning to the original hand...

THere is more at work here. All the callers need to be put to the fire. You don't want to lose to some backdoor trash flush if you can get that hand out. Maybe one of the callers has AT72 with a backdoor nut flush. His call was probably close to reasonable, but calling a double bet here would be a mistake. Make him fold or pay too much to stay. You also want to give anyone chasing a backdoor low a chance to fold so that YOUR backdoor low will be worth something.

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