betting enough to commit villan to call

WalleyeJason · #1 08-02-2005, 12:05 AM

I have been spending some time trying to improve my play reading my opponents range of hands and how to extract as much coin as I can when I know that Im best. Im pretty sure I'm starting to get a better grasp of it during gametime play.

This particular hand, I have no solid read on the villian, but from what I have seen he seems pretty resonable.

What range of hands can you expect to see here with him betting the size of the pot?

Also, with me calling his bet after the flop, should he have known that I was on some sort of hand?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter

CO (t2245)
Button (t4180)
Hero (t1835)
BB (t2415)
UTG (t345)
MP (t1600)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls t50, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets t150, Hero calls t150, BB folds.

Turn: (t450) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets t250, Hero raises to t900, MP raises to t1400, Hero calls t500.

River: (t3250) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t3250

WalleyeJason · #2 08-02-2005, 01:39 PM

TTT

A_PLUS · #3 08-02-2005, 01:44 PM

On the turn, his play looks like either 2 pair with the Ax, or, AXs pair/ nut flush draw.

I think you played it fine. if he rivered the flush, of well

reecelights · #4 08-02-2005, 02:43 PM

Range:
KQ-KJ (maybe two diamonds), AdXd, 33, unlikely but AK as well, worst case scenario being AdKd. You're ahead. I think KK is highly unlikely as he would not have bet the pot on the flop.

You played it right, except maybe push after his turn reraise.

WalleyeJason · #5 08-02-2005, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You played it right, except maybe push after his turn reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

His turn re-raise put me all in. If my thinking was right my riase to 900 basicly commited him to getting all the chips in the middle at this point with any holdings between TPTK to Top Two.

If you were the villen could you lay down AK to a 900 re-raise in this spot?

whiskeytown · #6 08-02-2005, 05:12 PM

there's a simple explaination for the pot bets -

he was making it so if you called with a flush draw, you'd be making a bad call - if he only raises a medium amount, then you're getting the odds to draw to a diamond (or even a st8)

Personally, I'd put him on a K with any kicker from 9 to Q -
RB

WalleyeJason · #7 08-02-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there's a simple explaination for the pot bets -

he was making it so if you called with a flush draw, you'd be making a bad call - if he only raises a medium amount, then you're getting the odds to draw to a diamond (or even a st8)

Personally, I'd put him on a K with any kicker from 9 to Q -
RB

[/ QUOTE ]

So the pot bet on the flop should have been the first signal that he was not holding a flush draw?

Is there any way you make a pot size bet with a flush draw in this spot?

WJ

A_PLUS · #8 08-02-2005, 05:29 PM

I wouldnt read too much into his bet size on the flop. With small pots, players dont generally size up there bets. You will see a much higher % of the pot sized bets in 150 chip pots than you will with 400 chip pots.

Seeing a pot sized bet with a nut flush draw here would be pretty much standard for most players. If he then paired his Ace, you will often see a reraise push on the turn, especially if he has something like A5

ZootMurph · #9 08-02-2005, 05:37 PM

First things first... with a coordinated board, you HAVE to either bet out or check/raise. You cannot let a flush draw get a cheap look at the turn.

Next, your call on the flop early in the tournament could mean a LOT of things. Many bad players will make bad calls here, and if you have no read on him, he probably doesn't have much of a read on you, so he could be putting you on anything from an OESD to a flush draw, to two pair or a set. When he bets half the pot on the turn, I have to put him on a K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], most likely. When you raise and he reraises allin, I definitely put him on one of three hands: 33, A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 or 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Unless the table has been REALLY tight or he's really passive preflop, then he may limp with AA, KK, or A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to try to get some action... but I really can't put him on those hands. If he has the flush draw with a pair, he has 8 outs... one [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], the Ace or King that he doesn't have, gives you the full house. If he has 33, he has one out.

Anyway, in my experience, a lot of players overplay their draws early in a tournament in hopes of accumluating a big stack or going out early. I'm guessing this is what happened here.

Iconoclastic · #10 08-02-2005, 08:19 PM

Why did you slowplay a set on a coordinated flop? Make em pay for draws and if called you'll get to push the Turn most of the time. The only times that you lose equity in this situation with a check-raise is someone folding a TP but it's still early in a tournament so it's very possible he puts you on a draw. It's not like you have position so slowplaying is much riskier here.