Pick My Major and 2nd Semester Classes for Me!!! (OT)

[jcm4ccc]

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WOW IF YOU THINK THE FRUITS OF CAPITALISM LIE IN WORKING FOR A LARGE CORPORATION AND MAKING A "CUMFY" SALARY....

YOU ARE JUST THE TYPE OF AUTOMATON THAT MOST EMPLOYERS WANT SLAVING AWAY FOR THEM LOLLOL LOL LOL

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I believe that the "fruit of capitalism" is choice. His choice (goal) is to get a good-paying job that interests him. If that is his goal, then he is going to have to work for it.

I said this in my post: "There are people who abandon college and capitalism and live a simpler life. I respect that." I think that position is quite different from the one which you subscribed to me.

My goal in life was to find a job that I found meaningful, whether it paid well or not. That's why I chose to become a clinical psychologist. The job pays well, but not nearly as well as other professions (medical doctor, investment banker, etc).

[ilya]

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• Quit college, and get a real job for a while.

I am 100% serious. If you do this, I guarantee that, in the long run, you will be much more successful. You will learn that the hardest course in college is easy compared to flipping burgers for 8 hours in row. You will come back to college with a renewed appreciation for your privileged status in life. And, you may find this hard to believe, but you will be happier too.

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That's kind of extreme, but I think it's pretty good advice actually.

[ilya]

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WOW IF YOU THINK THE FRUITS OF CAPITALISM LIE IN WORKING FOR A LARGE CORPORATION AND MAKING A "CUMFY" SALARY....

YOU ARE JUST THE TYPE OF AUTOMATON THAT MOST EMPLOYERS WANT SLAVING AWAY FOR THEM LOLLOL LOL LOL

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He didn't say that. Plus, I think he could cut "good-paying" from "...getting a good-paying job that interests you....", and his argument would be intact. Very hard to get an interesting job without finishing college, unless you're extremely (self)-motivated, creative, and, ooops, hard-working.

[eastbay]

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Consider the number of 'productive' or 'useful' disciplines which were borne out of philosohy departments in the past 500 years.

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They used to call physics "natural philosophy." This doesn't resemble anything going on in philosophy depts anymore.

I also have a very different experience about what kind of person a philosophy education produces. I know more guys who ended up sitting around smoking pot all day with a "it's all bullshit and nothing matters anyway" attitude than who ended up being ambitious and successful.

The philosophy majors I know are the most cynical people you could imagine, and this often makes them quite unpleasant to be around.

eastbay

[AleoMagus]

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I also have a very different experience about what kind of person a philosophy education produces. I know more guys who ended up sitting around smoking pot all day with a "it's all bullshit and nothing matters anyway" attitude than who ended up being ambitious and successful.

The philosophy majors I know are the most cynical people you could imagine, and this often makes them quite unpleasant to be around.

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I think this disparity between our experiences has more to do with the kinds of philosophy that we have been exposed to than anything else, and for that I apologize if I have been unclear.

There are a few branches of philosophy that I am very critical of and I have met many of these people you describe. Specifically, I am talking about Continenal philosophy and phenomenology/existentialism. Now I don't wnat to slag these guys too hard, because it is possible that I just never fully grasped what was being said in these classes, but I still feel that it is a shame that so often philosophy is identified with this kind of 'airy' meaning-of-exisitence thinking. There is so much more to it than that and I was always insulted when I'd go home at christmas and my family would make jokes about whether I'd discovered the meaning of life yet.

I came from a dept that was very rooted in 20th C Analytic philosophy, Phil of Science, Phil of Math, Phil of Physics, and Formal Logic. We studied ethics and existentialism, but the methodology was always rigourous and often critical of these field's real philosophical value. I have a deep respect for ethics as a discipline, but I'm not sure I classify it as truly deep philosophy the same was I would ontology or epistemology.

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They used to call physics "natural philosophy." This doesn't resemble anything going on in philosophy depts anymore.

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In my particular dept, we had at least three profs with active research in phil of physics, phil of mathematics, and foundations of mathematics. This was not light philosophical research at all and I'm sure that it would resemble at least a little of what goes on in physics depts today (considering that our profs sometimes co-authored papers with hard science profs).

20th C. Physics actually needs philosophical interpretation (which I'm sure that you know) and a lot of very interesting work is being done (mostly by philosophically minded physicists actually) that is shedding light on a lot of very old philosophical problems. Until the dressed-in black-turtlenecks, pot smoking, coffee shop, goateed, "Is it all just... Absurd?" philosophy students realize that the best philosophy today actually requires math, they will be missing out.

So perhaps we do not disagree as much as it seems.

Regards
Brad S

[The Yugoslavian]

Because we've already hijacked this thread from 'maybe I'll study Philosophy' to 'Philosophy, yay or nay' ...

My Philosophy department had several professors applying their work to other fields. One specifically was *heavily* involved in Quantum Mechanics (very interesting and high level stuff I was told by the smart Physics majors) and another was involved heavily in Cognitive Psychology. We had a professor whose work focused on Aesthetics and he worked a lot with the art and art history departments. There was also work being done with the Political Science department of course Religion department as well. Our professors had their hand in many, many projects and cross-discipline discussions. I'd say more than any other department.

None of the philosophy majors I knew just laid back, smoked pot and were idiots. Even the lazier Philo majors put in solid work and took it seriously (they just had a much harder time producing any original work). Frankly, many people dropped Philo after realizing that it would be much tougher than expected and not just a pot smoking breeze. (This is not to say none of us enjoyed a nice toke now and again, it just was far removed from the coffee shot bullsh*t).

Continental philosophy is an unfortunate necessity to understanding any analytical philosophy being done in America and it is well worth understanding. Sure those German translations have sentences that go on for pages and build up so much historical context it almost obscures the actual original thought it is an *extremely* rigorous and beneficial tradition.

Existentialism is the bomb. The presentation of Phenomenological ideas is *very* muddled and convoluded IMHO -- but there are some fundamentally important ways of thinking that feed directly into the analytic tradition.

Oh, and out of curiousity: where did you go to college Eastbay?

Yugoslav

P.S. I've decided Aleo rules as I can already tell that he has a firm grasp on academic Philosophy (I'm always very surprised how many Philosophy majors from random schools seem to have taken some weirdo classes and would have no idea what your post is talking about).

[Jman28]

I won't address it specifically, but you are way off on your analysis of my family.

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Eastbay used the word “entitlement.” I think that is absolutely correct. There are people who abandon college and capitalism and live a simpler life. I respect that. But that’s not you. You want the benefits of college and capitalism (good paying job that interests you) but you don’t want to work for it.


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Is it horrible of me to try and find out if there is a way to get a well paying job that interests me without having to work very hard???

Am I a bad person because I'd like to get a useful degree in an interesting subject that doesn't require me to work my ass off?

I never once said that I deserve to be more successful than those less intelligent than me. I don't believe that I do. People who work hard and are good at what they do absolutely deserve to be successful.

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I’m definitely Math/Science oriented as far as my intelligence . . . I have yet to take any math since High School

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Hmm, don’t even think I need to comment here.

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I guess this is supposed to be some sort of contradiction? I have a natural aptitude for math/science related subjects. However I dislike these classes. Therefore I haven't taken any in college. Tell me what is wrong with these statements.

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I do not do homework unless I must . . . I don't really read the material either, but I would if it was very interesting to me


[/ QUOTE ] So it is the textbook writer’s fault that you do not read the material?

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No, and I don't see your point here.

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Difficult concepts are fine with me. What I'm bad at is something that takes a lot of studying to do well in.

[/ QUOTE ] Eastbay has already commented on this.

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I'll address Eastbay's comments here, as I don't feel like starting another post.

The two of you think that the above is a contradiction. I certainly don't see it as one. Maybe it's a difference in our definitions of 'difficult'.

I'll give examples of the two types of things I'm talking about here:

Symbolic Logic. A lot of people have a great deal of trouble understanding translation from English to Symbolic Logic and vice versa; Especially when you get into universal and existential quantifiers. Many classmates of mine just don't get it, and no matter how much studying they do, never fully understand it. I understand it right away. Since most students I know never understand translation in symbolic logic, I consider it a 'difficult concept' that I grasp easily.

Human Anatomy. To learn about all of the parts of the human body and understand their function requires hours upon hours of studying and memorization. I consider this a concept that is not 'difficult' but requires hard work. This is where I am no good.

Were we talking about different things here?

Do you disagree with the ability to be good at one of the above examples and not the other?

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What about classes where you need intelligence, but you also need to work hard? You don’t seem to like those classes either.

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I don't like these classes unless I am interested in the subject matter. Is that okay?

This is from Eastbay's post:
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oftentimes the most gifted at higher levels of math are mediocre at best at high school level thinking.

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I can't argue with you on this as I haven't taken any higher level math. It seems hard to believe that the most gifted at high level math were not very good with more basic math. If this were the case, wouldn't a math SAT score of 500 indicate aptitude for high level math over an 800? Doesn't make sense.

I think you may be witnessing more students in high level math classes with 620s to 680s than 800s because there are so many more people out there with those scores.

If 90% of students with 800s were good at high level math and 25% of students with 620s to 680s were equally good at high level math, there would be more of the 600s in the world who are good at high level math.

But this clearly doesn't mean that a person with a 650 is close to as likely as one with an 800 at being great at college+ math.

Still Eastbay:
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I'm not trying to start a fight. But I don't think I'm unusual in that I am put off by the attitude of entitlement.

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I tried to explain myself earlier. I understand 'entitlement' as the attitude of 'I deserve to get things solely because I am naturally superior to others.'

First, is that an accurate definition?

Second, I do not feel this way. That is absolutely an arrogant attitude and I understand people being put off by it.

Let me try to sum up my attitude: I do not enjoy working hard. I would like to be able to find a way to be successful with the least amount of work possible.

If this isn't possible, I will probably not be very successful, or I will find a path that really sparks my interest and work hard at it.

I really don't see how this has been turned into me being a bad person. I have explained how I feel (and I don't know anyone who wouldn't like to find a way to easy success) and I've answered what I consider to be personal attacks without stooping to that level.

Forgive me for any gross grammatical or spelling or thought errors. I tried to focus but I just got my wisdom teeth out and I'm still recovering from the anesthesia and I'm on vicodin.

-Jman28

[ThorGoT]

If you were taking enough vicodin, you would no longer be concerned about such immaterial things as majors. Plus you would love everyone. Ask the oral surgeon to up your dosage.

[bball904]

Since I've always had a strong opinion that a college education is brutally overrated, I'll throw in my 2 cents. My background, for what it's worth, is a degree in Statistics with a minor in Math. In 13 years in the business world, I can count the number of times I utilized any specifics from my college education on one hand.

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I feel like there are 3 opinions on the subject:


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I couldn't stomach reading through this whole thread, but I gather there are many more than 3.

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1) Doesn't matter what degree you get. Have fun.


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B I N G O !

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2) Non-technical degrees are worthless. Maybe take some time off and come back when you want to work hard.


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The worst possible advice in this entire thread is to take some time off. College years are the best years of your life. Don't waste the opportunity, especially with your parents footing the bill.

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3) Philosophy is a great major that will open many doors.

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Whatever!

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that a college degree is a piece of paper at the end of the day. It may help you land a "well paying job" out of college, but what you bring to the table in terms of attitude, committment, and producing results from day 1 of your working life is much more important by the time you're 25.

[Jman28]

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Since I've always had a strong opinion that a college education is brutally overrated

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I agree man. I know I'm not gonna use 90+% of the stuff they're making me learn for their tests.

Thanks for the post.

-Jman28