Thank You SSHE & 2+2 Forums

Vern · #1 08-16-2004, 02:26 AM

I share this because before learning from these forums and complimenting that with Ed's book, I think I would have wanted to weakly fold the flop, turn and river too much. (That and having chesspain call me weak/tight hurt)

UTG+1 is LAGish
MP2 is new to the table
MP3 is a semi-Loose and Passive
CO is new to the table
SB is the poster child for Loose/Passive

Table as a whole has been loose by Star's standards.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed)
Props to Bison for his converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

I don't understand what CO could be holding to Cold Call two, then cap it when it gets back around. I want to fear larger pocket pair but figure it is more likely he is a maniac I have not yet identified. 

Flop: (25 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

 I am open to the suggestion that I should have raised, but with that King on board, all the pre-flop aggression and no obvious draw on board, my plan was to call one and if it was check-raised call one more. If everyone else folds I am still getting 26:1 to hit my two outs so I should call. Old me would not have folded here, but he would have been scared instead of confident in his play.

Turn: (15 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Again, I would have been worried about the check-raise with this large field, but figured if some body had a hand already beating my draw, they would let me know here on the turn. Now I figure each 10 is only worth half an out, 1 out total (would have been .75 if the T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] was not in my hand) and each queen is worth half an out but the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is only worth a quarter out, so I figure I have 2.75 outs on the turn, I quickly figured 16:1 in my head, the actual number is 15.73:1. I am getting 16:1 to call if no one else calls and figure the same thing, if it gets check-raised by anyone I will call one more. I have what amounts to a break even call in a huge pot. 

River: (20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

 Wheeee! I made my one card straight, it is unlikely there is another ten out there since I hold two but the queen that hit had to be a spade. Now a new player leads out and gets a call (the original CC/Cap from Pre-Flop). I debated on raising the river but figure it is safer to just call. My thinking was, I have CO beat, he capped, bet/bet/called, so I think a straight beats him, but I worried about that flush from SB, a Loose/Passive that just led into 4 other players on a scary river.

Final Pot: 23 BB
Main Pot: 23 BB, between CO, Hero and SB. > Pot won by Hero (23 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Jh 9h (two pair, jacks and nines).
CO shows Kd 8d (one pair, kings).
Hero shows Ts Th (straight, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins 23 BB. 

Like I said, I think I might have chickened out on the flop with the excuse that there were too many players left to act behind me to make even 26:1 to look good. Same on the turn. Feel free to criticize any portion of the hand, I am still happy and it is not just result orientated thinking but because I saw my outs and measured them 'fairly'. Thanks to all who have responded to my posts in the past.

Vern

sin808 · #2 08-16-2004, 04:19 AM

I think you played this ok. Raising might've gotten it heads up, but with the pot that bloated pretty much everyone would have odds to call, so I doubt it would have worked. CO being new, and his pf action would probably keep me from raising too. I'd say this might be one of those rare situations where calling is probably best. Though since I'm not too sure, I'd be interested in what others say.

Would anyone raise the turn if a non scary card fell?

SnakeRat · #3 08-16-2004, 04:41 AM

Definite river raise.

Eihli · #4 08-16-2004, 05:48 AM

The only big problem I see is not raising the river. What about raising the flop? Anyone have any comments on raising the flop?

Vern · #5 08-16-2004, 06:06 AM

My reasoning for not raising the flop, having the relative position to the bettor were:
<ul type="square">[*] There was no draw to make it two bets and therefor wrong to call[*] I didn't believe any King was gonna fold[*] Because of the size of the field and action pre-flop I figured I was more likely than not behind and drawing not ahead and charging[/list]
I don't know if raising would have been better, but that is what passed through my head. A two suited board or two cards closer in rank together for a more likely straight draw and I would have had to raise the flop to give me the best chance of winning.

Eihli · #6 08-16-2004, 06:15 AM

Yeah, my first thought was "a raise would knock people out and fewer people drawing means more chance to win." But, any hand you would knock out by raising, you would beat if your draw hit.

Nottom · #7 08-16-2004, 07:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, my first thought was "a raise would knock people out and fewer people drawing means more chance to win." But, any hand you would knock out by raising, you would beat if your draw hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless, for example, his raise got rid of someone with 2 spades.

Vern · #8 08-16-2004, 08:07 AM

Yeah, the more I think about this the more I think a raise on the flop would have been good. It might clear out those weak draws, but more importantly, if it was not re-raised, I would likely have gotten checked to on the turn. I would have been getting at least 27:2 on the flop to see the river . This is still better than the 10:88:1 that I need to hit a ten by the river. Putting in the backdoor draw that I did hit, I think this would be the best play. Raise the flop, pay half a BB less to see the river and get rid of weak draws. I am still unsure about raising the river, I am not scared of CO, but think SB's actions scream "I have the straight or better" I feared seeing ATx or two spades and called. Thanks for the feedback though, it made me realize as happy as I was with the hand, I could do better.

Nemesis · #9 08-16-2004, 01:07 PM

I think a raise on the turn is actually the better play. He cuts people's odds way down and he's drawing to a decent ammount of outs now, he could have prolly pushed the 2 people who folded on the river out right there, and increased his chances to win the pot if by some miracle everybody else is on a draw or a pair lower than top =/