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  #11  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:55 AM
Marlow Marlow is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

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Seems possible that villian has A T or a set worse than yours. Of course, he could also have the str8, but that seems unlikely because he cold-called a biggish raise in MP, and then a much bigger raise from you. So unless it's normal for him to call one or two raises oop with any two cards, then we can probably all but rule out the str8.

So he's either got a pair and the flush draw, or a set.

Puuuush

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i think a str8 is much more likely than you probably think. This is a deep stack game where people play a lot of crazy crap preflop. And many are capable of laying down sets to a push here (which is an argument for calling).

All that said i like a push too. But it's a grey area and it's a not a good of spot for villain as you seem to think.

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Well, if we can't limit his hand range as much as my first post suggests, I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But what do you think that the effect of the Hero's 2/3 pot turn bet is? This would certainly look weak to me. It's only 2x the size of his flop bet. This should prolly be factored in as well. I still like pushing here, but I'm very interested to hear what some of the HSNL players think.

Also, does anyone think that the $800 turn bet is a mistake?
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:36 AM
aggie aggie is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

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Also, does anyone think that the $800 turn bet is a mistake?

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I agree that a pottish sized bet would be better and it would make the rest of the hand play easier.

The more i think about this hand the more i think it comes down to whether or not villian will call an allin with a smaller set. If he will, push. If not, i think it's probably worth risking a scary river card and calling the turn.
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:01 PM
Marlow Marlow is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

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The more i think about this hand the more i think it comes down to whether or not villian will call an allin with a smaller set.

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What kind of player would call two raises with a crappy one-gapper in one scenario, and then lay down a set on a board that he's gotta think he's dominating in another? I think the reason this doesn't add up is because we don't have enough info about this actual player. Just me thinking "hey, MOST people don't make those calls preflop with a one-gapper," and you thinking "many people WILL make that preflop call in that f'ed up Foxwoods game, and many others will lay down a set in this situation" is only confusing the issue.

I completely agree that this hand is all about reads. I would be suprised if anyone can offer a definitive line here without better info.

BTW Aggie, I thought that 5/5 game was wicked soft. Is this not true? I've only played at Foxwwods once in the last year or so. I didn't play 5/5, but I can say with a certainly that the 2/5 players were AWFUL.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:06 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

marlow plz stop posting...
this is an intersting hand and your analysis is sucking up this thread.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:11 PM
aggie aggie is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

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What kind of player would call two raises with a crappy one-gapper in one scenario, and then lay down a set on a board that he's gotta think he's dominating in another?

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Me...I have many times in that exact game gotten $150 in the pot pre-flop with a suited 1-gap. I've also layed down undersets many times. This game plays extremely different from typical online 100bb stack games. With 1500BB stacks, you can play almost anything preflop if the game is right

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Just me thinking "hey, MOST people don't make those calls preflop with a one-gapper," and you thinking "many people WILL make that preflop call in that f'ed up Foxwoods game, and many others will lay down a set in this situation" is only confusing the issue.

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Okay let me change it up a bit. Many VERY GOOD players WILL make that preflop call in that game (although perhaps not on a regular basis [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

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BTW Aggie, I thought that 5/5 game was wicked soft. Is this not true? I've only played at Foxwwods once in the last year or so.

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the game is soft on fridays and the weekends as a good rule of thumb. The game varies drasically during the week and can be extremely tough at times. There are almost always some good players lurking around


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I didn't play 5/5, but I can say with a certainly that the 2/5 players were AWFUL.

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Yup [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2005, 12:16 PM
aggie aggie is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

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this looks like a call.

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Flawless,

the river is the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and villian bets $2500. What do you do?
the river is the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and villian pushes. What do you do?

the river is the is a blank and villian bets $2500. What do you do?
the river is the is a blank and villian pushes. What do you do?
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Marlow Marlow is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

[ QUOTE ]
marlow plz stop posting...
this is an intersting hand and your analysis is sucking up this thread.

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God, you really are the biggest jerk on 2+2 aren't you? If you have something constructive to add, then I suggest you do that. Otherwise, us lowly mid-limit players are here to learn and will continue to do whatever it is we feel we need to do so. So if you don't like my questions and comments, I suggest you either a) set your preferences so that you are ignoring my posts; b) offer some kind of actual ANALYSIS for once; or c) find another [censored] hobby.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:04 PM
edge edge is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

I definitely don't like pushing. I don't know what some of you guys are saying as far as "charging the flush draw"--a naked flush draw isn't going to call a push, and any draw that will call your push has odds anyway (straight/flush draw). I think a straight is very likely (97) due to the flop action. This looks like a call for sure. The river is going to be very tough without a board pair. Call, spike the case T, and stack him.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:57 PM
Riverman Riverman is offline
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

1. Don't reraise preflop, multiway action is great for this hand.

2. At the risk of being an a-hole, there is really no way to evaluate this hand without more information. This is live, so tell us more. I generally am more inclined to think set than straight because of the $150 although you said he is loose. I actually like a reraise more than a call here because there are some action-killing river cards and I have a real hard time giving him a straight. But that said you just have to make a read and go with it.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: 5-5 No Limit Deep stack hand

Yes, it is an uncapped buy-in.
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