ABC poker at higher NL levels, does it work???

[Rubber Soul]

I have read so many posts about how you have to go beyond ABC "by the
book" poker once you get over say the .50/1 nl ring game level
(online).... I realize the very top pros agree that you must change gears
in order to be a top player and many others seem to feel that you can't be
a big winner if the play ABC poker at higher levels... Now, I have yet to
reach these higher levels but it sure seems to me that you still can grind
out nice solid winnings year after year playing pretty much
tight/aggresive ABC poker at any level... I guess grinding out a mid five
figure income seems too bland for some... It sounds good to me and I think
a grinder would also have a decent shot like anyone else at making a final
table in a huge tourney... Any opinions???

[Cornell Fiji]

The problem when you move to higher levels (this coming from someone who at most has only had 2500 on the table in a NL game) is that most players will be able to quickly identify you as someone playing ABC poker and will be able to exploit you because of this. You must add variance to your game and be able to make 'plays' and make 'reads' that 'go beyond ABC' in order to actually be a successful big game player.

As for tournaments, I believe that you can have a good deal of success playing ABC poker (see: Dan Harrington - yes I know this is a generalization but he is pretty damn ABC as far as I have seen.) You need to win a lot of coinflips in order to win a tournament and therefore playing tight ABC poker puts you in less coinflip situations thus giving you a better chance of winning. In order to be a successful tournament player playing ABC you need to be very good at two things in addition to ABC poker: Stealing blinds when they are large, making plays late in tournaments in big pots that only you can make because people assume you have a monster from your ABC style of play.

-Steve

[lapoker17]

There are enough bad players in most no limit games - big/small/whatever - to afford ABC some success. The problem is, it's the ultimate grind. You have to not only wait for cards good enough to play, but you also have to get those cards at the same time that one of these bad players enters the pot, preferably head's up. So, yeah, you could do it, but it might drive you to suicide.

[MediaPA]

You can do it, but you also need to make a few 'dumb' mistakes. This helps throw people off so you will get paid when you occassionally make a hand. Strict ABC poker will be a grind that will see good hands often get poorly rewarded or even cracked because it's predictable.

[etizzle]

The problem is twofold. First, playing abc will allow people to not pay you off on your big hands. Second, better players will use this information to put heat on you when they know your hand cant take it.

[NLfool]

it can be done if you buyin as a shortish stack though it's not ideal. You'll get many bad calls as a shortish stack too as many guys will call even at a bad price because you have a "shortish" stack.

[TStoneMBD]

strict abc players will NEVER earn as much as a tricky intelligent player. there is a fine line however, between tricky intelligent, and maniac. there are pros are 3 pros at my local casino who are abc rockish and play 1/2NL for a living. they grind 50hours a week and probably pull in $15/hr. abc poker will bring in the money at lower limits, but you should go beyond that and mess around a little bit. its hard to break someones stack when you play predictable, at least if that player is somewhat decent. you will win more money by playing less predictable and loosening up a bit. aside from that, you will become a better player at a faster rate. just grinding out an abc approach at 1/2nl will not allow you to become a better player as fast as mixing things up will. you need to try new things and push your limits.

[edtost]

randomizing your actions with certain common kinds of flopped hands (sets, open trips, flush draws, etc) can go a long way towards making you much harder to read.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
3 pros at my local casino who are abc rockish and play 1/2NL for a living. they grind 50hours a week and probably pull in $15/hr.

[/ QUOTE ]

MBD speaks the truth -- I've seen them in action!

The reason that their style wins sufficiently at the TStone 1/2 is because at least 50% of the players there put very little thought into classifying other players. (probably common for 1/2 NL in decent-sized cardrooms?) A lot of the 1/2'ers won't even think about what their opponent could be holding -- only about their own hole cards. This certainly makes it easier for a player who plays one hand every two orbits, because half of the table doesn't know how tight they are.

-DB

[creedofhubris]

I play ABC $2/$5. There are enough fish that you can do fine.

It's also low variance.

If you can pick up the skills of sniffing out bluffs and taking stabs at undefended pots, you'll be in pretty good shape.