Opening new games / breaking old ones, question to floor/dealers

[steamboatin]

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It's all 2-4 and 1-2 no limit. Bummer.

al


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Limits higher than $2-4 are live and well in the midwest but i was having a discussion with one of the best players at Caesars, IN and he mentioned that the $20-40 game rarely ever went because everyone wants to play the 2-5 NL $200 minimum buy in.

Caesar's IN doesn't spread a capped buy in NL of any kind but that may change as demand increases. The limit games are very healthy except for $6-12 it hasn't taken off as well as I had hoped but it is still new to the room. I think most of the 5-10 players moved down to 4-8. The 2-4 limit always has a waiting list. The 10-20 is very healthy and often has multibple tables.

[Randy_Refeld]

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Al, I'm curious as to your opinion on a discussion I have had recently with the floor at Potowatomi (Milwaukee). They have 10 tables, and a typical configuration these days are 1 $1-$5 stud game, 4 2/4 games, 3 5/10 games and 2 $200 3/5 NL games. When they opened, a 10/20 and 20/40 game was always going, but in the past 18 months, the 20/40 game became a 15/30 game, which merged into the 10/20 game, and nowadays, the 10/20 game is hit & miss.

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Where they are going wrong is with the wrong smaller games. For a room this size the best progression in limits is 3-6 6-13 10-20. 5-10 should be avoided as the nature of the game with singal chip bets kills the action and provides for an al around poor experience. 4-8 shoud be avoided as it is too close to 6-12 for both to me successful. That leaves 3-6, when a 3-6 is spread there is no need for 2-4 in this size room. A case can be made for spreading a single 1-2 game, if done in conjuntion with poker lessons etc to bring new players in (right now this can probably be dropped as new players are flocking in anyway). When you progress from 3- 6-12 10-20 you are able to support the higher limit games. Most 10-20 players will play 6-12 while waiting for a seat etc. If someoen allows 4-8 into their room it consumes the limits around it and the jump from 4-8 to 10-20 is too big for players to make.

[Randy_Refeld]

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The limit games are very healthy except for $6-12 it hasn't taken off as well as I had hoped but it is still new to the room. I think most of the 5-10 players moved down to 4-8.

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As I mentioned above 4-8 consumes all the games around it. I would never spread either 5-10 or 4-8 (in a market taht can supposrt 3-6 6-12 and 4-8 of course I would spread the 4-8, but there aren't too many of those). They should combine the 2-4 and 4-8 into 3-6. 3-6 6-12 10-20 allows enough space between games that they don't kill each other but enough overlap to give players options (10-20 players will play 6-12 whilw waiting and 6-12 players will play 3-6 if they have to wait etc).

[steamboatin]

I don't have any delusions about Caesar's In being well run but it better now than when I started playing almost four years ago. the new room is really going to be nice when it is done and the atmosphere is much freindlier.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Excellent observations Randy. Note that Mirage constantly has 6-12 and 10-20, but MGM, who spreads 4-8, has trouble getting 6-12 and 10-20 to stay running.

al

[ReptileHouse]

Interesting observations and it makes a lot of sense. What do you think are reasonable conclusions when observing a poker room which consistently spreads 3/6, 4/8, 6/12 and 8/16 as low limit games and 20-40 through 75-150 as high limit (max bet of 150 by law)? Is the implication that the local market for this casino is crowded enough that they can get away with spreading a, theoretically, sub-optimal set of games, or is there something more complicated afoot? The room in question runs about 45 tables all told.

[Randy_Refeld]

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Interesting observations and it makes a lot of sense. What do you think are reasonable conclusions when observing a poker room which consistently spreads 3/6, 4/8, 6/12 and 8/16 as low limit games and 20-40 through 75-150 as high limit (max bet of 150 by law)? Is the implication that the local market for this casino is crowded enough that they can get away with spreading a, theoretically, sub-optimal set of games, or is there something more complicated afoot? The room in question runs about 45 tables all told.

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This is a larger room that I was referring to above. It appears they have a large enough market to suppor games that are close together. If it was up to me I would try to spread a 12-24 to smooth the transition up to 20-40 and so a 20-40 player could play something closer to their limit if there is no seat in their game of choice. It is harder to draw any more specific conclusions wiht out looking at the actual game numbers (hours per day each game goes etc).