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#71
12-21-2002, 03:48 AM
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Re: Muhammad Reveals...
While much of what is said about Islam on that link is true, I don't buy all of it.
Regarding women, Muhammad's views and words, his actions, as well as Islamic law today are appalling--Amnesty International condemns the treatment of women under Islam. Regarding Islam being a "religion of peace", just how does one explain Muhammad's myriad calls for violence against infidels, as well as his personal history of leading many military campaigns--complete with rape, pillage, etc., enslavement, and torture--and promises of sensual delights in the hereafter for his warriors as they did "Allah's will.". The more I read about Islam, the more I become convinced that the "peace" of Islam hinges on agreeing with it--or else. The word "Islam", I have read in several places, roughly means "submission to the will of God" or "peace through submission to the will of God." Well, hey, fine...great, in fact...no problem at all with that...as long as they don't try to force others also to submit to what the Qur'an reveals as the will of God. Unfortunately, that's precisely what Islam does. Submit to the will of God...or else. And it turns out to be a mighty big OR ELSE. Regarding jihad, there are indeed the greater and lesser jihads, and in a sense the personal and external jihads as well. The problem again arises when they take trhe struggle against bad things to be the struggle against everything non-Islamic. However there is no way out of this quandary, philosophically speaking, because the Qur'an IS the direct message from God--revealed perfectly to Muhammad, God's messenger. Therefore anything contrary to the Qur'an is contrary to God's will, and is more than fair game for jihad--in fact, jihad is an obligation for Muslims in this regard. It is sad but true that the "radical" Islamists actually have a sounder basis for their views, according to Islam. In other words, actual practice of Islam according to the Qur'an leads to what we see as "radical" Islamism (though it doesn't have to lead to terrorism). However it is simply pure Islamism. More moderate Muslims aren't really doing what their religion tells them to. I don't doubt you or many others might disagree with me on this, but I do doubt that many true Muslim scholars or clerics would disagree with this point. Islam is a religion which as no place for compromise built into it. 
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#72
12-21-2002, 09:32 AM
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Re: Muhammad Reveals...
I was unaware that there was any religion that has a place for compromise built into it. Certainly, some religions are forced to adapt to a changing world, but I don't know of any religious text that's got a lot of options.
"Thou shalt not covet unless she's really hot or she's over 5'10"." "And the Lord shall come down from the heavens and smite all unbelievers, or at least a decent percentage of them." Pretty well every religious text that I'm aware of is completely mandatory - it's all in how each religion chooses to interpret it and encourage it's followers accordingly.
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#73
12-21-2002, 01:42 PM
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Re: Muhammad Reveals...
The original form of Buddhism (Theravada), and Taoism are two religions which spring to mind as not fitting your description. Of course, most Westerners know virtually nothing about these religions, which are less popular than other mainstream religions, even in the East. Their religious texts are not generally mandatory in outlook and there are a lot of options for their foloowers.
Agreed, most religions are pretty strict in instruction to their own foloowers. The problem I have with Islam in this regard is that it is not only strict with its own followers, it is similarly imposing of its ideals and customs on outsiders. And we do see a lot of this today in the form of Muslim intolerance: of proselytizing, wearing crosses, having religious services other than Islamic (in Saudi Arabia it is considered a horrible crime to proselytize others to Christianity, and it is an offense to have a Christian service in your own home). I don't have a major problem with a religion imposing strict guidelines on its own followers (as long as these are not barbaric practices such as female "circumcisions"--cutting away the entire clitoris of a girl so that as a woman she cannot ever attain orgasm--a frequent practice in certain Muslim lands today). I do however think there is a problem when a religion attempts to force its customs and practices on people who are not its followers, even if these are relatively benign practices, and this is precisely one of the greatest problems of Islam. This problem is magnified because under Islamic law there is no separation of church and state.
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#75
12-21-2002, 07:15 PM
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Re: You Suck?
But Christian leaders DO ask for their followers to murder those who speak out against their brand of Christianity. The Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan is a Christian leader. Christians might not like it but a lot of Christians follow him.
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#77
12-21-2002, 07:30 PM
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Re: You Suck?
OK, maybe the Grand Wizard does that today (or maybe he doesn't--I wouldn't know). I'll concede that there may be a few nutcases on both sides, BUT even given such rare and extreme examples, the numbers here don't compare to all the imams today doing it. Lots of imams; maybe a nutcase or two in the US, and the Grand Wizard is surely a less mainstream and accepted figure than are these imams.
We also don't have a death penalty for leaving Christianity, but Islam does have a death penalty for it (apostasy).
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#78
12-21-2002, 07:52 PM
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Re: Muhammad Reveals...
It very well might be accurate to describe Buddhism as being more philosophically oriented than religiously oriented, but it is considered to be one of the world's great religions.
Before his death Buddha instructed his followers that, after his passing, they should not worship or depend on him, or on the order of monks, or on the scriptures, but should rather be lights unto themselves, and through thinking and meditation, strive to better their own understandings. Prayer to a Deity, or to deities, or even to the Buddha (the Awakened One) was not a part of original Buddhism. The existence of other worlds or other beings was not rejected, and was discussed and alluded to a bit, but the Buddha cautioned his followers against unprofitable speculation regarding things which were not essential to improving their own understandings, and not conducive to overcoming sufferings which arose from attachments.
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