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#42
09-22-2005, 11:11 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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[ QUOTE ] It is through His grace and mercy that He chooses to save those who accept the sacrifice that Jesus suffered on the cross. [/ QUOTE ] Save us from what? He is all-powerful and created the universe, so what is there to save us from? And since we are his own creations, why are we culpable for having weaknesses? [/ QUOTE ] Save us from what? The consequence of sin which is the eternal torment of Hell. He is all-powerful and created the universe, so what is there to save us from? It's not that God is saving us from the devil or some other evil being. God is holy and completely righteous. Everything that enters His presence must be so as well. Because we are sinful, we cannot enter His presence on our own. Hell is eternal separation from God. It is through the sacrifice of Jesus that God is saving us from eternal separation from Him. And since we are his own creations, why are we culpable for having weaknesses? Because He gave us free will. Only creatures capable of rejecting Him can fully love Him as well. 
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#43
09-22-2005, 11:13 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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[ QUOTE ] Save us from what? [/ QUOTE ] Punishment. [/ QUOTE ] AH! So we need God to save us from God?
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#45
09-22-2005, 11:20 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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[ QUOTE ] AH! So we need God to save us from God? [/ QUOTE ] I'm tempted to post a link I have to a list of 250 characteristics of atheist fundamentalists. [/ QUOTE ] Haha. So you respond that God must save us from his own punishment, and then now you want to smear characters as a rebuttal. When logic fails, there's always personal attack, right? (And P.S., I'm not atheist in that I believe there is no god, I am agnostic in that there is no objective evidence for god as described by religion. There is a difference.)
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#46
09-22-2005, 11:27 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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[ QUOTE ] Think about a compass. Just as a compass can be made to read incorrectly due to local magnetic fields (minerals, etc.), so is the same with a person's moral compass if he or she is not focused on God. [/ QUOTE ] How is it that so many mopral compasses of people and cultures which do not believe in your god appear to operate correctly? And so many moral compasses of those who do profess belief in your god, do not? In fact, it might be a hard sell to show any differences between the moral compasses of christians through history and those of non-christians. So much for that unfounded theory. [/ QUOTE ] I was referring specifically to one individual's feelings of right and wrong. The reason the "moral compasses" of various cultures who do not believe in God appear to operate correctly is because of absolute morality. It's an innate sense of right and wrong that God places in each one of us. [ QUOTE ] In fact, it might be a hard sell to show any differences between the moral compasses of christians through history and those of non-christians. [/ QUOTE ] That's exactly my point. Right and wrong comes from God whether you believe in Him or not. In various individuals not focussed on Him (notice I did not say "not believing in Him"), right and wrong may become cloudy. For the most part, though, throughout history cultures have believed the same basic things to be right and the same basic things to be wrong.
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#47
09-22-2005, 11:29 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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Right and wrong comes from God whether you believe in Him or not. [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for such a claim?
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#48
09-22-2005, 11:30 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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Haha. So you respond that God must save us from his own punishment, and then now you want to smear characters as a rebuttal. When logic fails, there's always personal attack, right? [/ QUOTE ] I'm attacking your posts, not you personally. You aren't being logical but are trying to twist words to give a literal appearance of logic, much as a child does when arguing with adults.
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#49
09-22-2005, 11:40 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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You aren't being logical but are trying to twist words to give a literal appearance of logic, much as a child does when arguing with adults. [/ QUOTE ] Me: Save us from what? You: Punishment. Me: So we need God to save us from God? How is this so illogical and twisting words? I simply restated that we need God to save us from His punishment, which is what you said.
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#50
09-22-2005, 11:59 AM
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Re: A problem with some religous views
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[ QUOTE ] Right and wrong comes from God whether you believe in Him or not. [/ QUOTE ] And your evidence for such a claim? [/ QUOTE ] Let's start with my last post: "In fact, it might be a hard sell to show any differences between the moral compasses of christians through history and those of non-christians." For the most part...throughout history cultures have believed the same basic things to be right and the same basic things to be wrong.
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