Killed on the river?

shmahappens · #1 05-28-2005, 04:54 PM

19/13/2.68 villain.
I know this river is uncallable, but am I good before then?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Nate tha' Great · #2 05-28-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know this river is uncallable, but am I good before then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't see why the A is a scare card.

shmahappens · #3 05-28-2005, 05:27 PM

Because I'm thinking he auto-capped AK then decided to try and take away the pot on the turn.

catlover · #4 05-28-2005, 07:24 PM

It's possible.

He could also have 99 or TT.

You are very likely beat, but I think there is enough chance you are good that you should call.

SpaceAce · #5 05-29-2005, 12:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
19/13/2.68 villain.
I know this river is uncallable, but am I good before then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure you meant to say, "I know this river is a must-call."

SpaceAce

34TheTruth34 · #6 05-29-2005, 02:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't see why the A is a scare card.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? really? If he wasn't behind before, isn't he almost certainly behind now?

I'm not saying I wouldn't call, just that this is a horrible card for me, isn't it?

elindauer · #7 05-29-2005, 03:00 PM

I don't think I've ever seen anyone cap, then check-call-check-raise before, so I'm curious what this guy has. In light of his very strange handling of this hand, I have enough doubt that I pay off on the river. I expect to lose most of the time, but I'm hoping for TT.

Good luck.
Eric

shmahappens · #8 05-29-2005, 04:06 PM

You're joking, right? Can you give anything to back this 'must call' up? Like a hand he'd play like this I can still beat - unless you're thinking he has KQd?! 9s and 10s are possible, though the amount of times he has that compared to the multitude of other hands that have me beat...
This hardly seems to be a 'must call' in any situation.

SpaceAce · #9 05-29-2005, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You're joking, right? Can you give anything to back this 'must call' up? Like a hand he'd play like this I can still beat - unless you're thinking he has KQd?! 9s and 10s are possible, though the amount of times he has that compared to the multitude of other hands that have me beat...
This hardly seems to be a 'must call' in any situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure I'm not joking.

[edited]
I had written several paragraphs but it got kind of rambling. You three-bet his early position raise, called a cap and bet two streets. How often do you put him on an unimproved Ace when he check-raises you on the turn? You called the turn with no odds to improve so I don't see how you can fold the river just because it's an Ace. You're not any more behind AA/KK/QQ on the river, you're still beating TT and 99 or some weirdly played suited non-Ace hand, and splitting with the other Jacks. The only hand that changes you from a winner to a loser on the river is exactly an unimproved Ace of some sort. Do you believe that makes up enough of his range of hands that calling the turn is correct but calling the river is not?

You called a turn check-raise and now the river brings one of three potential overcards but you're getting almost 11:1 on a call. If nothing else, this is an easy call (to me) to see what he played this way.

To answer the original question in your post, if you're behind on the river, I think you were behind before the river most of the time. Like Nate, I don't see the Ace as much of a scare card.

SpaceAce

dutchgrl · #10 05-30-2005, 03:13 AM

easy call on the river.....you only need to win 1 out of 10 to break even