How do I play AK here?

#1 11-29-2005, 09:17 PM

I have just been looking through some of my hands I recently played & this one was one that bothered me how to play,
I don't have any reads on any of the oppponents, but on the flop I'm concerned about someone hitting two pair (KT) also I have come up against alot of players at this limit who have the "any two cards will do" pre-flop mentality so I'm not ruling out T3 or K3 either.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero ?

a) Do I cap to protect my hand?
b) cold-call to hope to build pot (hoping SB & BB calls) then bet/raise UI turn
c) cold-call to hope to improve but call down 1 bet (folding 2 bets) to turn & river (even if T hits on either street)

Any help will be appreciated

MadMat · #2 11-29-2005, 09:28 PM

Wow that flop action is pretty nasty, I think whatever you do here it's costing you 4 bets to continue, I can't see how this isn't going to be capped behind you if you call.

I really don't think your hand is any good here, and I don't generally like to put people on a set this early, but CO's 3 bet screams set at me!

I think you cap, and fold turn UI if it comes to you for more thn 1 bet. But I really am unsure of this one!

Mat

jaxUp · #3 11-29-2005, 09:30 PM

I fold.

tyler_cracker · #4 11-29-2005, 09:33 PM

a) Capping does not protect your hand. No one who was thinking about cold-calling 3 is going to fold to that 4th bet.

b) You don't want to build a pot; the pot is plenty big already and you have one pair.

c) I think calling down and folding the turn UI (or maybe calling if it's only 1 bet and the board doesn't get any scarier) is your best strategy. Position is about the only thing you have going for you right now, and it lets you see how crazy these guys get on the turn.

tyler_cracker · #5 11-29-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.

MadMat · #6 11-29-2005, 09:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Offence taken, not being able to let go of TPTK is a huge leak of mine, I need someone to kick me in the nuts every time I do this!

Mat

jaxUp · #7 11-29-2005, 09:39 PM

seems like we'll be getting 6:1 to call with 0 or 3 outs.

#8 11-29-2005, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you cap

[/ QUOTE ]

This sucks. Raising again doesn't protect our hand and almost certainly isn't for value. I'd rather just call and see which of those monkeys likes his hand enough to cap.

And i know you said you were unsure, so i'm not being a dick; i'm just seeking the truth along with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Offence taken, not being able to let go of TPTK is a huge leak of mine, I need someone to kick me in the nuts every time I do this!

Mat

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same, I just don't like folding TPTK here, but if someone is holding a set (I'm thinking pocket three's most likely as TT & KK would of been raised PF) I'm entering a world of pain.

tyler_cracker · #9 11-29-2005, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
seems like we'll be getting 6:1 to call with 0 or 3 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, running aces/kings isn't 0 outs!

The more i look at this, the more i think maybe we should give up before putting 2 more BB in the pot, but i'm not sure i could actually do it.

#10 11-30-2005, 02:51 AM

This pot is huge. I mean huge. And it's getting bigger. Cap it, and follow along. A cap will often stabilize the betting in situations like this: your opponents will each see two or three other opponents willing to call down a bet, which will result in at least one of them evaluating his holdings as a draw, and at least one is on a straight draw here. You should be able to fold the river with one additional bet on the turn, if you fail to improve, adding to the 3BB you've put into the pot before fourth street. Total cost, 4BB. I cap here, because it lets me maintain my positional advantage, and it stirs doubt in the other players. Ive played in games like this at this level, and their texture is always a lot of betting that seems to indicate monster hands, which too many times turns out to be drunken posturing. To quote miller: do not think about how to save bets in circumstances like this, think about saving pots. If you cap, you enter fourth street with 14BB.

It's true that there are two raisers and a lead out bettor who will join you at the turn, and this may make this analysis secondary to that consideration. Still, you have TPTK, and the pot is huge.

The pot is huge.

That's 14BB huge, and you've not progressed to the turn. You may be drawing dead, true, if there's a set here, but you may be drawing lively, with your opponents drawing to 2 pair, or a pair of Kings. A = 3 outs, K = 2 outs, and 1 out to the 2 gap gut shot (turn and river). You need 7 to 1 to 14 to 1 to justify staying in, and the implied odds promise you a surplus in every case. I know it's hard to follow through on this kind of play, but I think you have to grit your teeth and do everything that will slow the betting down, minimize your risk, but persist.

I don't like to raise AK with multiple calls in front of me (see HEFAP) preflop. An AK raise in later positions is pretty much reserved for coercing the blinds. A raise of AK IN the blinds can be for value, assuming that there have been limps in middle postion. I've been reading a lot of material on AK lately, and it's all contradictory. Nonetheless, AK in big multiway pots is a weakened holding, by consensus. Raising AK EP is for protecting the hand, and assumes your table will fold to your play; with many players in the pot already, or the probability of many players in the pot, there's nothing to protect.