Is this too aggressive with small pair?

KHALI · #1 09-06-2004, 10:26 PM

Ok to set the stage I have just started playing poker this year and just moved up to the $25NL tables so I am inexperienced. I had shown down two big hands in the past half hour(KK,QQ)so I hadn't played any garbage and got caught yet.The villian had raised almost every single hand and showed down some suspect holdings like a baby ace, Q 9 suited etc... so I figured he was full of it. Regardless of my read here is my play correct or a bit crazy? I think I made a mistake by not reraising enough(make it $10 maybe or push I guess) and my other mistake is giving him more credit than he deserved for being able to fold a hand. Anyway comment on the play and what you think.

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed)

MP2 ($17.45)
MP3 ($12.65)
CO ($25.00)
Button ($24.05)
Hero ($21.15)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($19.20)
UTG+1 ($20.15)
MP1 ($11.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 raises to $2, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) folds, Button folds, Hero (poster) raises to $6.1, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $11.65, Hero calls $5.55.

Flop: ($24.05) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: ($24.05) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($24.05) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $24.05

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4d 4c (two pair, sixes and fours).
MP1 has Jc Td (two pair, jacks and sixes).
Outcome: MP1 wins $24.05.

Cannes · #2 09-07-2004, 03:45 AM

This being a full handed table, I'd definitely just call preflop, and play the mid-life crisis for set value. Wait for the set and bust him with it.

hagelito · #3 09-07-2004, 05:01 AM

If I would have played my 44 against the $2 raise (which I probably wouldn't) I would have called it and put him on high cards or even possible a higher pocket pair wich wouldn't be very good (you never know for sure).

Then I would bet big on the flop to make it hard for him to call with drawing hands/over cards because only a higher pocket pair beats you at this time.

But as I wrote in the beginning, I probably wouldn't play this hand at all because of the possibility of a higher pocket pair.

Chris Daddy Cool · #4 09-07-2004, 09:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But as I wrote in the beginning, I probably wouldn't play this hand at all because of the possibility of a higher pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually the reason why you play small pocket pairs is so you can bust bigger pocket pairs by hitting sets.

jcm4ccc · #5 09-07-2004, 10:17 AM

I probably would have folded pre-flop even if there had been no raise. When the raise came, I would definitely have folded.

Sure, you play small pocket pairs in hopes of getting a set. But this was such a long shot, and you were betting against someone who clearly has something.

Daann · #6 09-07-2004, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have folded pre-flop even if there had been no raise. When the raise came, I would definitely have folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pocket pairs are the best draw in NL, and sets are the biggest money maker. Limping 44 in EP in these games is perfectly acceptable.

[ QUOTE ]
you were betting against someone who clearly has something.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that this wasn't the best play, JTs isn't exactly the preflop nuts.

Wayfare · #7 09-07-2004, 01:57 PM

This hand is super duper fishy all around. Congrats.

KHALI · #8 09-07-2004, 04:22 PM

Just a theoretical question. In the same hand against same opponent, you hold AK instead of the 44 how do you proceed. KNowing that if you miss your flop he will follow his preflop raise with a bet regardless of what hits. I would imagine the majority or players wouldn`t think twice about reraising here with AK.

hagelito · #9 09-21-2004, 05:07 AM

Late reply, but better late than never.

I know it's mainly for flopping a set, but not in those cases where the preflop raise is to big (and where someone possibly can flop a bigger set which is possible when someone preflop raises big).

And in this case he didn't flop the set.

Flop a set is about 10,8% which means about once every ten times, which means he loses $2.25 (if he not reraises as in this example) about 9 times out of ten which is $20.25. Then he need to win $20.25 plus the current hand costs to stay on the positive side.

And yes you may win more than 1 out of 10 if you bluff, but sometimes it doesn't work as in this example and then it gets costly.

/Hagel.