Caught the straight when semi bluffing. Action...?

cianosheehan · #1 09-30-2004, 07:56 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 4 handed)

Button ($9.25)
Hero ($58.41)
BB (Villain) ($37.45)
UTG ($15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Button folds, Hero raises to $1, BB (Villain) calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, Villain calls $2.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($8) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Villain calls $1.

River: ($10) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)


Hero??? 

Would you play any differently up to this point?

Cannes · #2 09-30-2004, 08:23 AM

woa!
would I play it differently? YES SIR!!
raise preflop with Q9o from the sb??? YIKES
I would complete, but I wouldn't like it.
bet the pot with a missed flop?? NO WAY
check fold!
then bet only $1 on the turn?? huh? What kind of consistency is this? ok you've picked up an OESD, check/call a reasonably small bet.
River: Your money card!
man what a suckout you pulled. I just hope for you, that your opponent isn't slowplaying a boat and taking your intire stack. Good luck.

cianosheehan · #3 09-30-2004, 08:34 AM

Lol

ok..keep in mind this is Party Nl 25 six max! Not only could Q9 easily be the best hand between myself and two opponents, but I quite regularly do little bluffs like this, to both steal on the flop (hence my 2.5 bet) or to get some action going. I guess its just the way I approach the game. Any back-action and I am out of there. I saw the turn for cheap, and the river for even cheaper. The only thing I was not sure about was the size of my turn bet. Maybe it should have been bigger. But I didnt want to get a big re-raise if, say I bet $2 or more.

Bez · #4 09-30-2004, 08:37 AM

On the turn I'd bet the pot. To semi-bluff successfully you need to bet enough so that your opponent will fold a hand that is currently ahead of you. Betting $1 here won't get a fold from any kind of hand.

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!! · #5 09-30-2004, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
woa!
would I play it differently? YES SIR!!
raise preflop with Q9o from the sb??? YIKES
I would complete, but I wouldn't like it.
bet the pot with a missed flop?? NO WAY
check fold!
then bet only $1 on the turn?? huh? What kind of consistency is this? ok you've picked up an OESD, check/call a reasonably small bet.
River: Your money card!
man what a suckout you pulled. I just hope for you, that your opponent isn't slowplaying a boat and taking your intire stack. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont listen to this guy.... hes weak tight. Looks fine, but i would bet more or just give up on the turn. Personally i would check/call w/ correct pot/implied odds for teh draw. River: if teh villan is a HUGE bluffer, try to squeez one out, otherwise bet out for sheezle.

cianosheehan · #6 09-30-2004, 09:55 AM

When I hit my straight, I thought that Villain probably thought I was just trying to bluff him off the pot, and the pathetic turn bet was backing this up. I thought if he had any hand (and at this stage I was sure he had something), he may call a big "bluffing" bet. I delayed for a few seconds, and raised him all in for $30+ into a pot of approx $10. After a second or two he called, and showed JQ, three Jacks with Queen kicker.

I guess in this case the turn bet was beneficial in giving me this opportunity, not to mention that not once did he raise me. (FPS!)

thoughts?

amoeba · #7 09-30-2004, 10:20 AM

you got lucky. You had a gutshot on a paired board at the turn.So you had 4 outs assuming he doesn't hold JT which is a common holding. I don't think his lack of raise on the turn was that bad a play. I would have popped you back but thats just me.Your $1 bet tells you nothing about your opponent. Lets say you played the same way at the turn, but the river didn't complete your gutshot, how do you play now? Fire another one on the river? check fold the river? For that reason, I don't like the $1 bet. you have no folding equity, you have to fold to any raise, and if villain just calls but river misses, you are still stuck.The only function of the bet seems to be a blocking bet on the turn hoping that your gutshot hits on the river.

It would have been funny if he turned over JT instead of JQ.

schwza · #8 09-30-2004, 10:43 AM

as others have pointed out, don't raise Q9 from the SB. if for some reason you're going to raise, don't min raise. the only way this raise is a good idea is if you think that everyone has too much of a tendency to limp-fold and that you can steal their limps. this is almost never the case in NL 25.

i like the flop bet. i bet into almost all paired boards - it's just too hard for someone to call you without trips, and players are too reluctant (IMO) to bluff-raise.

turn - i never make a weak bet like that. brunson says it explicitly in s/s: "i never make a post-oak bluff," which apparently means min-betting. it's generally frowned upon.

river - pushing worked out well, but i'd be more inclined to believe this guy has a 7 than a J. i think either is likely to flat call the flop, but a J is more likely than a 7 to put in a decent raise on the turn. that didn't happen, and there are 3 unseen 7's compared to 2 J's, so i'd assume a 7 is most likely. to extract a crying call, i'd have bet 4 or 5 and called any raise.

Chuckster · #9 09-30-2004, 11:58 AM

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont listen to this guy.... hes weak tight. Looks fine, but i would bet more or just give up on the turn. Personally i would check/call w/ correct pot/implied odds for teh draw. River: if teh villan is a HUGE bluffer, try to squeez one out, otherwise bet out for sheezle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. In these short handed games you need to switch it up and sometimes raise with iffy hands (maybe even garbage if you are in the right position against the right player) You can not just sit there and wait for the monsters.

I like the pre-flop raise, I like the bet on the flop. At first glance I hated the small bet on the turn, but considering what the villian had, this small, undersizd bet might have scared him, or not made him raise for fear of getting you out. I think if you bet strong on the turn, he might make a big raise on you and then what?? Sometimes, the suspicious looking weak bet on the turn can benefit you, although I know I would have likely bet 5 on the turn.

CheckFold · #10 09-30-2004, 01:52 PM

I also don't like the min raise out of the blind. If you want to raise with that holding in a 4 handed game, that's fine, but at least triple the bb and give yourself a real shot at getting it heads up. The min raise from the blind is an extremely common play, and to me it usually means exactly what it did here...a medium garbage level hand looking to create a little action and maybe steal on the flop. It just encourages an observant opponent to come over you with any draw or any piece of the flop.

What is the purpose of the $1 bet on the turn? Are you just trying to confuse your opponent into not raising? I think you were lucky that the villain in this hand plays poorly. There's a heart draw out there, and AQ, KQ, any 9 or 8 now have a chance to get there on him. Your line basically tells any 7 that they're good and any A will now call as well. What was your plan on the river if you missed? After a $1 bet on the turn, coming out for a large bet will look like a bluff and probably get called again by any 7 or A.

I would lead out for about half the pot on the turn. You've created a medium sized pot and it's worth it to take another shot at it. Give a 7, A high, possibly even T9 a chance to fold. If you're lucky, a J may only min raise (or in this case, even flat call) and give you odds to see the river.