Standard, yet worth discussing

fnurt · #1 10-02-2005, 10:40 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+2 (t2325)
MP1 (t365)
MP2 (t925)
MP3 (t685)
CO (t1780)
Button (t905)
Hero (t940)
BB (t720)
UTG (t720)
UTG+1 (t1635)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, 3 folds, MP2 calls t20, 1 fold, CO calls t20, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t100) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets 60, 1 fold, UTG raises to 175, 2 folds, Hero...

Slow Play Ray · #2 10-02-2005, 10:46 AM

...calls.

twolf · #3 10-02-2005, 11:07 AM

given his stack and the blinds, I assume he sucks and has a K. You have little fold equity on a push so just call with good implied odds. There will be 450 in the pot on the turn to which he will likely push his last 525 at which point you will fold given the bad odds on your allin call. Very standard, yes?

#4 10-02-2005, 11:17 AM

I love having a pair and a flush draw, but I would worry that my ace isn't an out here. I'd call for only 115 more, and if you spike a spade, you are gold, and if you spike a 3, you are most likely good. He most likely has AK, KQ, or KJs, and possibly 66. You either got 9 outs, 11 outs, or 14 outs, I'd assume the 11 and gamble that he doesn't have pocket 6's.

If he prices you out of a turn (likely he is going all in on the turn givenb his stack), muck it, you'll still have plenty stack to get back in it, but if you hit one of your cards, he is out of there.

You could fold here, but I'd probably gamble a little.

I do know a push here isn't doing anything, he is sticking around regardless.

Blindcurve · #5 10-02-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You have little fold equity on a push so just call with good implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the question, really. I don't think you have enough FE on the flop, but I think you might be able to push any non-flush, ace or 3 turn card, and force UTG into a decision.
Of course, your chances will be significantly worse at that point, but if you've mentally committed to seeing both cards, then maybe the turn push will give you a slightly bigger chance of taking down the pot uncontested.

It is also entirely possible UTG is drawing to a smaller flush. I think he has something like KJ-K8.

-D.

TheBlueMonster · #6 10-02-2005, 11:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
possibly 66.

[/ QUOTE ]
seriously doubt it. Naked King is most likely.

fnurt · #7 10-02-2005, 11:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
given his stack and the blinds, I assume he sucks and has a K. You have little fold equity on a push so just call with good implied odds. There will be 450 in the pot on the turn to which he will likely push his last 525 at which point you will fold given the bad odds on your allin call. Very standard, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Don't I turn myself from a slight favorite into a substantial dog by adopting this line?

I also wonder if I have much in the way of implied odds given how obvious my draw is.

johnnybeef · #8 10-02-2005, 11:27 AM

I'd estimate you to be at 40-50% here. I like a raise of about half of your stack with the intention of pushing the turn or calling a push on the flop. Get in there and gamble.

#9 10-02-2005, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
possibly 66.

[/ QUOTE ]
seriously doubt it. Naked King is most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you discount it so quickly? Alot of people like to limp in early position with small pocket pairs, and with a flop with a possible flush draw and a king on it, you wouldn't slowplay a set here. I'm not saying that its the most likely hand, like I said, it also could be AK, KQs, KQo, or KJs. I'd still assume I had all of 11 outs, but if we got all in when another 3 fell and I saw 66, it wouldn't suprise me too much.

Blindcurve · #10 10-02-2005, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
possibly 66

[/ QUOTE ] seriously doubt it. Naked King is most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 66 plays the same way, though. It should be considered- I think for most intents and purposes we're playing for a flush. Regardless, all the money is going in if we catch an ace or three, so the 66 possibility isn't critically important.

It has occurred to me that we're not getting paid if we hit. Which would be an argument for pushing...

-D.