200/400 bellagio vs v good player

[DcifrThs]

keep posting these 2/4 hands.

im putting myself in her shoes and thinking what id need to have to a) raise the turn, b) call your 3 bet, c) 4bet the turn, d) call the river after the 3bet.

i think preflop is a side note in this hand although it plays into the above requirements. 3betting here isn't bad and needs to be done occasionally. personally id be more likely to call a bit more often than is probably optimal as is my style in the bb OOP. your play here is fine.

first question: did you plan on bet/3betting after she raised the flop (and the turn comes favorable)? (did you have a read on her?)

if so, what did you put her on at that point b/c i think there's a decent chance you're beat right now if this hand got to the river. the only hands that match my questions above about continuing past the turn 3 bet are those hands that contain a pair+flush draw, flush draw, overpair+flush draw, very aggressively played AA/KK no spade, a made flush, or an outlandish bluff. this last part is important to consider b/c when good players who haven't gotten HU before but know each other knows each other, there could be a propensity for attempt to outplay/overplay certain holdings as the player thinks that the other player will give more respect and recognizing times to win pots like this at these limits is a huge coup. still, id say its a fairly large unlikelihood at the point she raises the turn.

what i think is great about the turn 3 bet is that she now has to call all pair + spade hands but is not happy about it. the problem is if the hand continues the hands you beat are ones that are drawing to Qs/Js and have the jack or the As and has the 8. i dont think she has TT here ever really.

if i played this hand id probably call the turn and call a non spade river and bet a spade river.

which brings us to the river which, if it got there, is im sure interesting after the turn 3bet. if she calls the turn 3bet and it blanks off i think you need to bet. but if you get called, damn, its close to being a check on the river. the reasont eh 3bet on the turn is good is the same reason why a check on the river is good: she has to call the 3 bet w/ spades on the turn but now can't call the river.

anyways, im sorry i can't give a more clear cut response.

Barron

[ggbman]

I like this a lot. Her turn raise can very easily be 99-TT with a spade for free showdown. Fold to a 4 bet obviously.

[Lestat]

Like the 3-bet pre-flop. Also like the stop 'n go. The 3 bet on the turn is up to you. I certainly don't find too much fault with it, particularily if you're setting up for future play. I think I usually prefer to call the turn raise and lead a non spade on the river though.

[golferbrent]

I love the insta 3 bet b/c it signifies a lot of strength here and that is what you need. Besides I think there are a lot of holdings here that you are still ahead of.

In addition, I think that the 3 bet preflop is a good play as well. I see no reason to not 3 bet her here if she is opening as often as you say she is. Irregardless of the outcome of the hand I think you played the hand as well as you could.

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">I love the insta 3 bet b/c it signifies a lot of strength here and that is what you need. </font>

Why is signifying strength important with top pair/2nd best kicker on this board? What hands will fold that aren't supposed to? I don't see many hands that will be lured into making a mistake.

btw- I'm not saying 3-betting isn't good, just that you confused me with the importance of signigying strength comment.

[golferbrent]

I agree... probably not important to signify strength. My thinking was that the 3 bet is the correct play... but 3 betting after thinking about it... does not feel correct. 3 betting as a reaction to the situation probably means that it is the most correct play, instead of taking the time to convince yourself.

My thought was probably more for internal thought purposes as opposed to outward display and consumption.

[bicyclekick]

she folded her A8 on the turn to my 3 bet.

Usually this 3 bet is bad but it was one of those "i was there" 3 bets that 'fealt' like the right play. Dunno how I can feel that but it just seemed right.

[limon]

exactly why 3 betting the turn is a bad play.

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
exactly why 3 betting the turn is a bad play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting her to fold a hand with 5 outs rather than her taking a free showdown or betting the river if she improves is not a bad play.

If you read my original post I commented on how she seems to raise turn donk bets fairly frequently and I think it is important to 3 bet her in order to take away of her positional edge. Of course, I would never discuss with her what my hand was, but that is just me.

[limon]

she raised the turn w/o a draw. she thought her hand was good. she bets the river on a blank/calls if you lead into her on a helper for you. you make more/lose less.