AK soooooooted

SCfuji · #1 12-07-2005, 03:30 PM

full tilt $10 dolla, 8 handed, level 2 blinds 20/40

hero t1775

villain #1 has t2105 because hes a loose preflop (open limps K2o) and hit a K when another hit a Q and check/called villain #1's bets.

villain #2 has 3215 by doubling through on the first hand with AA vs 88.

villain #1 limps, 2 folds, villain #2 limps, 2 folds, hero raises to 200, bb folds, both villains call.

3 to the flop for slightly over 600 chips:
J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero bets 280, villain #1 calls, villain #2 folds

heads up to the turn for about 1200 chips:
[J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero?

rbear · #2 12-07-2005, 03:36 PM

I hate this flop. I think you need to bet stronger on the turn to see where you stand ~450-500 should be sufficient.

SCfuji · #3 12-07-2005, 03:40 PM

i hate this flop too but i hate the turn more. and i was deciding whether i should just push the flop or put in a smaller continuation bet. i wasnt going to throw in 600 since its half my chips and since i had two villains i opted for the smaller bet.

bluefeet · #4 12-07-2005, 03:43 PM

do recall the blinds?

SCfuji · #5 12-07-2005, 03:46 PM

20/40 sorry. limps were 40 chips.

rbear · #6 12-07-2005, 03:51 PM

I think w/ even one super LAG in the hand, I push if it's a choice between a weak continuation bet and a push.

SCfuji · #7 12-07-2005, 03:58 PM

sorry if you think there is a LAG in the hand. i didnt mean anything like that with my reads.

rbear · #8 12-07-2005, 04:00 PM

Uhh, anyone that limps K2o from EP and then gets 600 chips in the middle leading out the whole way is LAG in my book.

SCfuji · #9 12-07-2005, 04:05 PM

he actually ended up in position against a blind in that hand but okay.

bluefeet · #10 12-07-2005, 04:27 PM

Deep stacked, healthy stacks, I don't see TT, JJ, probably not even AQ limping PF here. KJ, KT...from your description, maybe...

I'm trying to reason an open push on this flop. One reason not to, is the risk of ruin situation obviously...'blind' pushing. The other might foresake value. With our healthy PF raise + 2 callers, we have already accumlated a great deal of value (a pot now equivalent to 40% of our stack). From that stand point alone, I have no problem NOT continuing to the turn for value's sake.

The only question is - can you lead an amount that protects your hand, gives bad odds for a draw to continue while gaining substantial value, and obtains the information needed for an exit consideration...all without fully committing yourself to the hand?

But could you consider folding? If this better lead is t400+, could we fold our last 1.1k getting 2:1 with TPTK, 3 outs to over take 2-pair, 4 outs for the nut straight? Not likely.

So, I'm going broke on the flop. Now prepared to go broke, do we consider trying to get more value from the hand? If we're behind on flop, it is HIGHLY likely we are getting raised AI anyway. If we're ahead on the flop, what hands could even consider calling a SUBSTANTIAL c-bet? A "Q", a weaker "K" maybe.

Pushing this flop is fine IMO, as you might just get your call from those anyway. But I'd consider near potting this thing (t500ish), giving him horrendous odds to chase the 7, or 3 outer, pushing any turn.

Ps. Lost somewhere in there is the point that IMO you lead far too weak OOP on this board.