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Old 12-26-2005, 11:33 AM
checkmate36 checkmate36 is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Syacuse, NY
Posts: 13
Default Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

While playing UB .25/.50 full-table I ran into the same situation on 3 different hands. The same villian (calling station) would wait till the turn to raise me. I dumped the first 2 but on the third I felt he was trying to be tricky. I bet the turn, was raised, decided to call the raise and the river bet to see what he was up too.

The flop had JJ7 and I should have known he had the J but felt that after the other 2 hands, I needed to make sure and put my notes on him in order.

I usually don't do this but I did on this session. Thanks for any thoughts.
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:55 AM
AussieBattler AussieBattler is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Land DownUnder
Posts: 43
Default Re: Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

yes, and in the short term I regret it like you probably did. Usually though Ill pay off on the first or second time....perhap you got the ass end of it here and he made all 3 hands...youll never know. Normally I try and make an effort to tighten up for a while if this happens because when you bet fold the turn 2 times and then lose the 3rd time on the river many ppl will label you as a bluffer. (most wont be checking hand history here to see if your aces got busted).

TAGs who are paying attention will also take a shot at you too (remember its UB and at any particular level they arent too many tables so chances are theyll have a few hands on you). So tighten up and when you make your hand they (the fish not necessarily the TAGs) will pay you off every time with bottom pair. and dont forget to note what his other card to his jack was. that read could be golden for you.

in my experience at this level most players arent tricky so the station will make this play once and youll call it down HU but after that if he does it again then you can be pretty sure he has the goods. A station usually isnt clever enough to bluff you with a turn CR....thats not what stations do.

note: you havent given any indication of how YOU played the hand and whether or not you showed strength so Ill assume you had AK/AQ or a high pair and bet out til the turn when you met Mr CR
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Old 12-26-2005, 11:56 AM
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

Not a good idea. Other people will look him up and you get information for free. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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Old 12-26-2005, 02:25 PM
marchron marchron is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: marchand chronicles@blogspot
Posts: 122
Default Re: Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

If you already knew he was a calling station, you can safely fold just about anything to a checkraise.

I only call in that situation when I have too much hand to fold. Here's somewhat of an example from last night: Villain (MP2) here has an incredible 96/35/1.5 profile.

Full Tilt .50/1 (9-handed)

Preflop: <font color="green">marchron</font> is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">MP1 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">MP3 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">BT folds</font>, <font color="green">marchron completes</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="green">marchron checks</font>, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="green">marchron bets</font>, <font color="#666666">BB folds</font>, <font color="#666666">UTG+1 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">CO folds</font>.

River: (4.5 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="green">marchron bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="green">marchron calls</font>.

Granted, I wasn't checkraised. Still, I thought the likeliest hand I was facing was a very-slowplayed trip-10's, but since I had top two (granted, with a board kicker), I thought my odds of winning/chopping were just barely good enough to call. Plus, with a villain as psycho as this, I didn't think waiting two streets was in her repetoire.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB (after rake)

MP2 shows 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Tens)
<font color="green">marchron</font> mucks A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
Outcome: MP2 wins 8.25 BB, but surrenders more to marchron on later hands when marchron's updated read lets him clobber the [censored] out of her.
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Old 12-26-2005, 03:10 PM
nomadtla nomadtla is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Open Till Midnight
Posts: 444
Default Re: Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

There was a wonderful thread along these same lines in Small Stakes. It wasn't a long thread or even one with much discussion but the posts in it were good (esspescially Harv72b's).

You will find it here

And I acctually did print out Harvs post as one of those things to read regularly.
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Old 12-26-2005, 07:17 PM
checkmate36 checkmate36 is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Syacuse, NY
Posts: 13
Default Re: Ever pay 2 BB\'s to see what villian is up to?

Thanks for the link. Good stuff!
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