Confused in Scugog

[elysium]

hi joe

you would raise with AA in that spot for other reasons. other than for value, why would you raise with AA?

[joes28]

1 reason I am raising with AA is because i want to thin the field. Which is also why im raising AT.

[elysium]

hi joe

no, no. it's o.k. though. we're going to do a month or so of this THE LORD willing, and you'll be hitting the right answer. as a team, we're all going to start getting in shape. i want you people to do some stretching.

[tomahawk]

elysium, you are hilarious, and probably a better player than I can ever hope to be, but this

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so what do you want to do? raise and build a big pot you say? only a hand of equal strength will be in there building a big pot with you.

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and this

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joe there is no chance of stealing. the poster will call with anything and the blinds know that. the BB will be getting 6-1 at least

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really doesn't make sense. maybe someday I'll get there..

[pokerhooker]

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why raise? what is it that you want to accomplish? do you want to win the blinds? yes? are you sure? oh, you're not sure that you want to win the blinds. you have excellent position with what has a reasonable chance of being the best hand. you feel that your hand and position is worth more than just 1 1/2 bet. well, if you raise, you will win the blinds. some people would like that.


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I am persuaded to believe that the ev of playing ATo is considerably lower than 1.25BB. If this is true, as Sklansky writes, "winning the blinds is a coup". Therefore, I raise. What leads you to believe this hand is worth more? In your opinion, how big does one's ace have to be to change this scenario to a raise?

[oreogod]

OP pretty much said in his post, the blinds will not fold anything against him. Having the poster check, doesnt ATo have equity in this situation?

Why would u just call. U have position and blinds willing to play any 2. You hand figures to be the best in this situation.

[shemp]

Well, skp, something to think about. Online I'd agree. Live I just can't imagine a double check raise here, so I bet. On the river, I'd have to think about it. But I bet the turn.

[elysium]

hi tom

to clarify what you can expect to be called with when mass psychology begins awakening to the extra money being offered by the pot; and it need not be a lot extra; we would need to include even some of the malignants we are used to checking with pre-flop from the BB. it doesn't take a hundred dollar bill out there to excite the psychology of greed that turns on the crowd whenever people gather together for what we call a poker game, or, we might as well just say it, a money fight. when people gather together for a money fight, the very first thing that you must know is that where even a little extra free money is involved, the risk involved in attepting to take it is psychologically minimalized through the process of mass rationalization inducted by the desire to possess. this desire can become so powerful that whatever the actual value of the hole cards, the player who desires to possess the extra free money being offered will perceive them to be of greater value than his opponent's. and again, it need not be a lot of extra money to bring this change of behavior about.

74o is no longer seen as such. instead, the desire to possess may cause your opponent to experience his hand as an aesthetic array of vivid colors and light. others stricken by the idea of extra free money may experience their hole cards through the auditory sensory, hearing euphoric musical notes or the sound of many harps in harmonious symphony suggestive of wealth and splendor. 74o may be funky for the beatnik or jiving for the soulful when you throw a little extra money into the mix.

69o is a total dud, but throw in a little extra pocket change and 69o becomes 'don't take the brown acid man.' for the retired hippy. he will call you down to the river, unimproved man.

to make matters worse, you will have opponents in there who will have the same strength hand as ATo. these opponents will usually not reraise but instead opt out for letting your greed get the better of you. they will read you as weak and if they get the slightest bit ahead of you, they will raise with what they feel is the hands down winner. and as i said previously, raising pre-flop is eliminating options that you may need in your post-flop arsenal those times you don't improve significantly.

i am reminded of the ol' saying; 'second best hands can sometimes be the best, but they're even better when they're best but played like second best.'. when you raise in from the button, you will be greeted by a wide variety of hands when a little free money is thrown to the crowd. only fools rush into these situations with a raise, in fact, this hand should never be raised first in from LP except in the rarest of circumstances. this goes for KJo and KQo too.

[bicyclekick]

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only fools rush into these situations with a raise, in fact, this hand should never be raised first in from LP except in the rarest of circumstances. this goes for KJo and KQo too.

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I can't buy this man. You've got some interesting thoughts, but cmon, who are you kidding?

[Diplomat]

I think my turn check might have been a mistake but if so, it's close. Equally confusing was the result; I tabled my AT, the CO poster tabled A5, and the SB mucked angrily. My best guess is that he had Qxs of hearts.

-Diplomat