A 20-40 hand from Hollywood Park last night

[elysium]

hi hakee

fold on the flop.

[hakeem]

[ QUOTE ]
hi hakee

fold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you call any bets at all or just dump it immediately and why? I am fairly sure I am drawing to the nuts and any A is good.

[NLfool]

on the flop an A isn't realistically a safe out. First off I know nobody likes to give anyone credit for a hand but both your overcards could be dead a set already. An A could very likely give someone 2 pair or the straight. Frankly it's just way too many people and action for your to hope 1 pair will cut the mustard. Way to much action given even by idiots will tell you 1 pair at the river won't win it.

hmm yes I'd fold preflop and if I didn't the flop is also a good time to fold

[bobbyi]

I think folding this flop would be a real mistake. I'll certainly acknowledge that making a pair on the turn isn't too likely to win this pot. But with this rainbow board, hakeem has four clean outs to the nuts. Yes, he will occassionally chop (either against another AK or because a J comes on the turn and then an A or K on the river) or hit a J and lose to a redraw on the river. But even if the flop is likely to get capped, he is still getting the odds here to call just for his gutshot. A J on the turn puts three broadway cards on board and he will get all kinds of action from sets, two pairs and/ or smaller straights (89). Given the current size of the pot and all the action he figures to get if hits, I think folding on the flop would be a clear mistake. If there were a two-flush on board, then I might agree with you.

[Gabe]

How many Jacks you reckon 'r in that deck, boy?

[stanky]

[ QUOTE ]
How many Jacks you reckon 'r in that deck, boy?

[/ QUOTE ]

he can't assume any of the other players are holding a jack. He has to call the flop even if it gets capped because of the odds he's getting from the pot plus the implied odds.

-pete

[Steve Giufre]

I would seriously consider folding on the flop. The broadway draw is usually a big nightmare when there is a lot of action on the flop. I doubt you will have as many clean outs as you think in this situation most of the time.

[Gabe]

The turn, son, the turn.

[mike l.]

"I'd have folded pre-flop to a 3-bettor of an UTG raiser."

you must not like money.

[mike l.]

im not folding that flop either against those freaks even though you may be drawing nice and thin. just too many players in and too nice of a position to go away. so you might as well raise and see if they scare easy.

a fold on the turn would be nice. youre being sent a message loud and clear that youre still behind and have to hit very thin and very perfect to split the pot. this is the place to fold. party over, at least for a few seconds.