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Old 12-22-2005, 03:04 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default $22: hand w/ post flop play

2nd hand of a PP $22. Two players busted on hand one. Folded to me on the button with TJs. Comment on all streets welcome, I know that I'll hear about the pre-flop limp. All three options crossed my mind. My thinking on limping was that I have a decent hand, one that I can raise with, but I can also just keep the pot small and play position. Sometimes I would raise here, I almost never open limp like this, but I didn't think that it was a complete donkey play at the time (though it may well be). (I know that others will say to just fold here on level one.)

I'll post results later, but I think the hand is somewhat interesting.

Seat 1: SNT51 ( $800 )
Seat 2: Atlashrug ( $800 )
Seat 4: drewdawggg ( $2475 )
Seat 8: busdecks ( $725 )
Seat 10: MarinerDaddy ( $800 )
Seat 5: BOCTOK_RU ( $800 )
Seat 6: HERO ( $800 )
Seat 3: bliztkrieg ( $800 )

Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jd Td ]
SNT51 folds.
Atlashrug folds.
bliztkrieg folds.
drewdawggg folds.
BOCTOK_RU folds.
HERO calls [15].
busdecks calls [5].
MarinerDaddy checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, Jc, 8s ]
busdecks checks.
MarinerDaddy checks.
HERO bets [40].
busdecks calls [40].
MarinerDaddy calls [40].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
busdecks checks.
MarinerDaddy checks.
HERO bets [125].
busdecks raises [250].
MarinerDaddy calls [250].
HERO folds.
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:16 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

Pre-flop and flop action look fine.

I don't like the turn bet because I've already been flat-called by two villains on the flop, and the turn card gave me a straight draw but may have made somebody else a straight or two pair. I just take a free card there and hope to check it down if I miss.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:25 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

Everything is fine until the turn. Check behind on that turn. Your holding is still kind of mediocre, and if you're going to bet and fold you're missing out on the value the OESD you just picked up offers. (PS - call that turn minraise. You're getting the odds to draw to the straight, particularly since there's a lot of interest here. You'll be up against another JT surprisingly often, I think, but you still have good value here) Take the card, and if you don't make the straight, make your river decision based on the action ahead of you. The decision will be calling or folding, as your middling hand is not one you should be raising with here. Checking behind if there's no bet and you didn't make a straight is a no-brainer here, in my opinion.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:25 PM
bluef0x bluef0x is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

I personally don't play JTs, but if I did I would want it to be in more of a multi-way pot where I can go for the straight/twopair/flush and if I miss I can let go of it cheaply...

Here you showed you had something on the flop and got two callers. The fact that they both called is kinda iffy but you only bet 40 chips and donks will stick around with nothing for that much. I'd make another bet on the turn maybe 60% of the time, the other 40% take another card. Not a horrible play, but this is why I prefer JTs in a bigger multi-way pot where I can throw away top pair easily.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:30 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

[ QUOTE ]
Everything is fine until the turn. Check behind on that turn. Your holding is still kind of mediocre, and if you're going to bet and fold you're missing out on the value the OESD you just picked up offers. (PS - call that turn minraise. You're getting the odds to draw to the straight, particularly since there's a lot of interest here. You'll be up against another JT surprisingly often, I think, but you still have good value here) Take the card, and if you don't make the straight, make your river decision based on the action ahead of you. The decision will be calling or folding, as your middling hand is not one you should be raising with here. Checking behind if there's no bet and you didn't make a straight is a no-brainer here, in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the thing is, if I was playing a 55 (I've only played a few of them), I'd be more likely to check behind on the turn. But at a 22, my thinking (obviously it could be flawed) is that value betting is king. The flop bet was only 40, so these guys could be calling me with just overs, you know?

If the pot had been heads-up, betting would be fine, but since I had two callers, I guess it was wrong.

As for not calling the mini-raise, well, again, it's a lower limit thing. Mini-raise followed by flat call told me that someone had a monster and wanted to suck me in. If I'm up against TQ, I'm drawing for a split.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:46 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

[ QUOTE ]

But at a 22, my thinking (obviously it could be flawed) is that value betting is king.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, but you can't be at all confident that you are ahead here.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:51 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But at a 22, my thinking (obviously it could be flawed) is that value betting is king.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, but you can't be at all confident that you are ahead here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't really, but the guys on the 22s are pretty predictable. You don't think that LOTS of times I'm getting called on the flop by bottom pair, middle pair, two suited cards, an ace, etc etc etc...

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying that against guys who are typically calling stations (since I don't know these guys, but it's a 22, I'm putting them into that category), I figured that my bet could either be a value bet with the best hand or it would be big enough to get them off whatever crap they possibly called with on the flop.

Now, when the action went mini-raise, call, I had my answer.

(Again, I'm not saying my line was correct, just giving my thinking.)
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

I'd raise pf. It has a good chance of folding out SB, and let's me take control of the pot (if that's even a good thing).

Other than that I'd play the hand the exact same way...but I have a -roi @ the $22s so what do I know. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:06 PM
xJMPx xJMPx is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop and flop action look fine.

I don't like the turn bet because I've already been flat-called by two villains on the flop, and the turn card gave me a straight draw but may have made somebody else a straight or two pair. I just take a free card there and hope to check it down if I miss.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:12 PM
pineapple888 pineapple888 is offline
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Default Re: $22: hand w/ post flop play

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying that against guys who are typically calling stations (since I don't know these guys, but it's a 22, I'm putting them into that category.)

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I think this kind of thinking is a pretty big leak, one that I had to get away from myself when I had to step down from the 215s to the lower buy-ins.

The players at the 22s are bad, but they are bad in different ways. For example, many of them love to trap when they should be betting.

You still should be pretty sure you have the best hand to make a value bet, and I don't think you can be here.

My two cents, anyway.
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