full house wars: do you ever fold?

[graarrg]

I'm not even gonna bother posting the hand history, but the simple idea is:

I have AQ in my hand. The flop comes QQA. I Check call a low bet on the flop.

Do I lose all my chips here to AA every time? any card on the turn with action looks like a trip queens that just filled up (filled up dead of course).

[emptyshell]

Unless your opponent is a rock who just raised preflop for the first time in 500 hands, I lose my stack every time.

[Mendacious]

This depends on a) what the opponent did pre-flop and b) whether the opponent re-raises you at any point.

I don't think I lose my stack here that often because most people raise with AA pre-flop, and I probably play this hand slow as hell because either I have the unbreakable nuts, and I am going to have to suck people into playing me, or I am already beaten, so I don't want to make a huge pot.

Now if this hand the flop is QQK and I have QK in my hand I probably lose a lot more money to the guy with KK.

[Wintermute]

Sometimes I think you might find a fold here. If your opponent is knowledgeable and is in a position where he might limp w/ AA, perhaps you can get away from smaller fullhouse. Example:

$200 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: marley25 ( $536.99 )
Seat 6: Banbury_Boy ( $257.95 )
Seat 7: Hero ( $436.66 )
Seat 10: bongo6832 ( $431.99 )
Seat 8: kewlhead ( $437 )
Seat 4: lavaman11 ( $25.70 )
Seat 3: wazwaz ( $243.30 )
Seat 5: tricky1010 ( $0 )
Seat 2: woodchopVI ( $198 )
Seat 9: toml11 ( $200 )
Banbury_Boy posts small blind [$1].
Hero posts big blind [$2].
toml11 posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kh As Tc Ac ]

kewlhead folds.
toml11 checks.
bongo6832 calls [$2].
marley25 calls [$2].
woodchopVI calls [$2].
wazwaz folds.
lavaman11 folds.
Banbury_Boy calls [$1].
Hero checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, Ah, Jc ]

Banbury_Boy checks.
Hero checks.
toml11 bets [$5].
bongo6832 folds.
marley25 calls [$5].
woodchopVI folds.
Banbury_Boy calls [$5].
Hero calls [$5].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]

Banbury_Boy checks.
Hero checks.
toml11 bets [$30.40].
marley25 folds.
Banbury_Boy calls [$30.40].
Hero raises [$60.80].
toml11 folds.
Banbury_Boy calls [$30.40].

** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]

Banbury_Boy checks.
Hero bets [$181].
Banbury_Boy calls [$181].

Hero shows [ Kh, As, Tc, Ac ] a full house, Aces full of jacks. Banbury_Boy doesn't show [ Ad, Ts, 9h, Jh ] a full house, Jacks full of aces. scoopmeister wins $543 from the main pot with a full house, Aces full of jacks. There was no qualifying low hand.

Hero: back in your hole, son. back in your hole.


In that case, the guy might be able to get away from it considering I'm not a dumbass (don't know if he realizes it) and the turn raise is for minimum, etc. I'm not sure I get away from his hand, but it's possible.

Here's one I think I should've gotten away from:

$1000 OmahaHiLoGameTable (PL)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: CHULAPRO1 ( $435)
Seat 2: GASSS_U ( $1000)
Seat 3: Hero ( $1411.63)
Seat 4: yasnovid ( $1012.5)
Seat 5: Icculus19 ( $2094)
Seat 6: MMM23 ( $950)
Seat 7: skngSWF25_40 ( $1051.25)
Seat 8: Rubesh60 ( $948.69)
Seat 9: imoronam ( $603)
Seat 10: JuiceToThat ( $3848.25)
skngSWF25_40 posts small blind (5)
Rubesh60 posts big blind (10)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Kh, 4d, Kd, 2h ]

imoronam folds.
JuiceToThat calls (10)
CHULAPRO1 folds.
GASSS_U folds.
Hero calls (10)
yasnovid calls (10)
Icculus19 folds.
MMM23 folds.
skngSWF25_40 folds.
Rubesh60 checks.

** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qd, Ad, Qs ]

Rubesh60 bets (42.75)
JuiceToThat calls (42.75)
Hero calls (42.75)
yasnovid folds.

** Dealing Turn ** : [ Ks ]

Rubesh60 bets (170.25)
JuiceToThat calls (170.25)
Hero raises (500) to 500
Rubesh60 folds.
JuiceToThat raises (1670.25) to 1840.5
Hero calls (858.88)
Hero is all-In.

** Dealing River ** : [ 5h ]

** Summary **
Main Pot: $3058.26 | Side Pot 1: $481.62 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Qd Ad Qs Ks 5h ]

Hero balance $0, lost $1411.63 [ Kh 4d Kd 2h ] [ a full house, Kings full of queens -- Kh,Kd,Ks,Qd,Qs ]
JuiceToThat balance $5494.88, bet $1893.25, collected $3539.88, net +$1646.63 [ Ac Jc As Ah ] [ a full house, Aces full of queens -- Ac,As,Ad,Qd,Qs ]

It's not quite what you're talking about, but still, what hand reraises on the turn there that I beat (Villain, again, is good)? I can save $900 by folding there.

[bodie]

If I flopped Q's full of Aces I would most likely check and call - it would be hard to fold unless there was some "proof" (i.e. preflop raise) that an opponent might have A,A - even then it's hard to fold a full house since someone with the case Q might raise their set here. It's a bummer to have a non-nut boat- but it's tough to fold it too.

[Cooker]

I would play the flop aggressively. Bet the whole pot. Anyone that can call that bet is usually looking down at AA. Still, with no raise preflop, the stacks will have to be awfully deep and the guy pretty predictable for me to find a fold. I would have to know that he couldn't play trip Queens that fill up the way he plays the hand in question. I will want to have seen him play pretty passively with trips and maybe an underfull at some point before this hand comes up in order to fold to a bet or raise on the later streets (AA will usually slowplay here, I think incorrectly).